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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PaulW41" data-source="post: 9764422" data-attributes="member: 6685535">Here is how I look at it...1) The base rules are 99% 5e (not 5.5e or 2024).  So if you have a bunch of 5e books, they directly port over to ToV with less drama.  If you want to 'ToV' your 5e classes to match the progression of ToV, Kobold Press has a free doc for that.2) Real difference is in ToV is how they re-balanced the character classes, subclasses and abilities.  They just did a better job overall than 5.5e.  If you don't like some of their work, see point 1 and use 5e rules for those classes.  No harm no foul.3) The amount of DM\Player support in the ToV books is just over the top.  ToV (and the Campaign Builder series) goes out of their way to show you how the system ticks so you can create your own home-brew and well thought out adventures.  There is a lot of goodness there that I can't overstate.4) The goal, as I see it, of the Players Guide 1 and Monster Vault 1 was to take everything Kobold Press could legally from 5e and make it their own.  So its understandable why some players feel the way they do.  Players Guide 2 coming out in January and now Monster Vault 2 (just out) is now going in their own direction away from a direct 5e port.  Personally, I think adding new subclasses to the Players Guide would have helped the reputation of ToV and posts like this would exist less.  Water under the Bridge now.5) Many good optional rules as others have pointed out: Doom, Luck, etc.  Lots of stuff to make ToV as crunchy as you want.I don't regret moving to ToV one bit for my 5e games.  I think it's the best 5e system to be a part of hands down.On the minus side, I think the biggest thing that holds KP back is their inability to market their game.  They get no buzz on the internet and that counts alot these days.  I create sometimes on YouTube and anything I do for Draw Steel gets x10 the views of ToV.I agree with others that Deep Magic spells is a mess for balance.  Kobold Press learned their lesson on that because ToV is much better thought out.  The Deep Magic subclasses are generally fine and I'm using some of them while I wait for Players Guide 2.  I might drop Deep Magic once the 2nd Guide is out.Disclosure: I do volunteer to help admin Kobold Press' Discord.  I am not paid by them, etc.</blockquote>

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