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"Ouch! My toes!" - Rangers & Druids
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<blockquote data-quote="Empirate" data-source="post: 5785580" data-attributes="member: 78958"><p>It has recently been a bit of a topic in my gaming group: Druids step on the Ranger's toes. Big time. Both have the same area of expertise (the great outdoors), but Druids seem to do everything better. <strong>Don't read the following if you don't feel like digging through a wall of text, just bear in mind that's the problem.</strong></p><p></p><p>My campaign is 3.5, E6 rules apply, and it's a homebrew world in which overland travel is difficult, climate is harsh, the environment unforgiving (approaching deadly) even when no monsters are about. Knowing about these features of the new campaign, the group (three players) decided to make doubly sure they were able to survive in the wilds. One rolled up a Druid, another a Ranger.</p><p></p><p>Fully aware of the overlap, and of the reasons why Druids are considered tier 1, while Rangers are tier 4 (and the third character is a Warlock), I established that Druids <em>must </em>take the Shapeshift variant from PHB2. I consider this to decrease their power and versatility by quite a bit, and I kind of like the variant thematically, as well.</p><p></p><p>Problem is, when I called for a bunch of Survival checks over the first few sessions, it was quickly becoming clear that only the Druid need roll: between Nature Sense and much better Wis, the Druid has four or five points on the Ranger even though both maxed out their Survival skill.</p><p></p><p>The Ranger's player, a little bit disgruntled about being sidelined in her supposed area of expertise, started a debate at another time. Her question is: in what ways are Rangers mechanically equal, let alone superior to (even Shapeshift) Druids?</p><p></p><p>At the low levels, base attack bonus doesn't matter too much yet (only a point or two difference);</p><p>combat style is just bonus feats which pigeonhole you into a certain in-combat role;</p><p>favored enemy is only useful against 10% of the creatures out there, and even then, the bonus it provides isn't felt too much;</p><p>Track is useful, but Druids get Scent as a spell...;</p><p>Endurance is an awful waste of a bonus feat, unless for prereqs (which doesn't apply in E6);</p><p>a Ranger's Animal Companion and spellcasting is pitiful compared to a Druid's. Even with the Shapeshift variant, a Druid's Trackless Step, Woodland Stride and Resist Nature's Lure taken together almost equal the usefulness of a Ranger's AC;</p><p>armor class for a Shapeshift Druid and a Ranger wearing light armor is roughly equal;</p><p>etc.</p><p></p><p>In a word, she felt her Ranger was largely redundant, without any real 'edge' that justified her place in a band of heroes.</p><p></p><p><strong>Restart reading here if you skipped the above:</strong></p><p></p><p>Now we all know that not all classes are created equal. However, I'd like to have less bad blood about class balance in my group, and moreover, neither of the players wants to redo their PC (huge back stories etc.... player ego stuff).</p><p>So what do I do about it? Given their similar areas of expertise, how can I challenge the PCs in such a way that the Ranger can contribute usefully, while the Druid takes a back seat for once? How can I accentuate each class's uniqueness?</p><p></p><p>Thoughts so far: the Shapeshift variant still seems like a good idea. If the Druid already had an animal companion to mess things up, that would hurt even more. OTOH, the group only just leveled up to 3rd, so for now, shapeshifting at will is much better than waiting a couple more levels for that one wildshape use/day...</p><p>I've thought about giving the Ranger full Animal Companion progression (instead of half), and of course a very cool unique specimen will cross her path at one point. But that's still a level or two away.</p><p></p><p>Have you had this situation? Did you do anything about it? BTW, Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star Ranger, and Mystic Ranger are out for campaign reasons (no arcane casting here). Even Wildshape Ranger is out, because the Ranger's player possesses some decency and doesn't want to step on the Druid's thematical toes (or play copycat, I don't know which).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Empirate, post: 5785580, member: 78958"] It has recently been a bit of a topic in my gaming group: Druids step on the Ranger's toes. Big time. Both have the same area of expertise (the great outdoors), but Druids seem to do everything better. [B]Don't read the following if you don't feel like digging through a wall of text, just bear in mind that's the problem.[/B] My campaign is 3.5, E6 rules apply, and it's a homebrew world in which overland travel is difficult, climate is harsh, the environment unforgiving (approaching deadly) even when no monsters are about. Knowing about these features of the new campaign, the group (three players) decided to make doubly sure they were able to survive in the wilds. One rolled up a Druid, another a Ranger. Fully aware of the overlap, and of the reasons why Druids are considered tier 1, while Rangers are tier 4 (and the third character is a Warlock), I established that Druids [I]must [/I]take the Shapeshift variant from PHB2. I consider this to decrease their power and versatility by quite a bit, and I kind of like the variant thematically, as well. Problem is, when I called for a bunch of Survival checks over the first few sessions, it was quickly becoming clear that only the Druid need roll: between Nature Sense and much better Wis, the Druid has four or five points on the Ranger even though both maxed out their Survival skill. The Ranger's player, a little bit disgruntled about being sidelined in her supposed area of expertise, started a debate at another time. Her question is: in what ways are Rangers mechanically equal, let alone superior to (even Shapeshift) Druids? At the low levels, base attack bonus doesn't matter too much yet (only a point or two difference); combat style is just bonus feats which pigeonhole you into a certain in-combat role; favored enemy is only useful against 10% of the creatures out there, and even then, the bonus it provides isn't felt too much; Track is useful, but Druids get Scent as a spell...; Endurance is an awful waste of a bonus feat, unless for prereqs (which doesn't apply in E6); a Ranger's Animal Companion and spellcasting is pitiful compared to a Druid's. Even with the Shapeshift variant, a Druid's Trackless Step, Woodland Stride and Resist Nature's Lure taken together almost equal the usefulness of a Ranger's AC; armor class for a Shapeshift Druid and a Ranger wearing light armor is roughly equal; etc. In a word, she felt her Ranger was largely redundant, without any real 'edge' that justified her place in a band of heroes. [B]Restart reading here if you skipped the above:[/B] Now we all know that not all classes are created equal. However, I'd like to have less bad blood about class balance in my group, and moreover, neither of the players wants to redo their PC (huge back stories etc.... player ego stuff). So what do I do about it? Given their similar areas of expertise, how can I challenge the PCs in such a way that the Ranger can contribute usefully, while the Druid takes a back seat for once? How can I accentuate each class's uniqueness? Thoughts so far: the Shapeshift variant still seems like a good idea. If the Druid already had an animal companion to mess things up, that would hurt even more. OTOH, the group only just leveled up to 3rd, so for now, shapeshifting at will is much better than waiting a couple more levels for that one wildshape use/day... I've thought about giving the Ranger full Animal Companion progression (instead of half), and of course a very cool unique specimen will cross her path at one point. But that's still a level or two away. Have you had this situation? Did you do anything about it? BTW, Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star Ranger, and Mystic Ranger are out for campaign reasons (no arcane casting here). Even Wildshape Ranger is out, because the Ranger's player possesses some decency and doesn't want to step on the Druid's thematical toes (or play copycat, I don't know which). [/QUOTE]
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