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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Archimago" data-source="post: 195442" data-attributes="member: 1204">Feliath - WIS refers more to one's connection, albeit spiritual, to something external like nature for druids or a god for PHB clerics. CHA refers to connection to internal power that's why the sorceror and the bard use CHA. This means that my Paladin/Blackguard class would use CHA because they are connecting to something internal.Magus_Jerel - (Possibility 1) I guess I should have mentioned, but without deities maintaining a cosmic constant, alignments become much more gray. IMC, players don't get alignments, only extraplanar creatures like angels or demons, which are from an alignment plane and epitomize that alignment have one. So, I can't really do anything with alignments.(Possibility 2) Still requires worship and I don't like having a class that is inherently submissive to something, just not very adventurous. (Possibility 3) I really want to not make the cleric class be a cleric of anything, I just wanted a class with the same or similiar abilities but not be rooted in religion at all. Thanks for the effort though, but it just not what I was looking for.This takes me back to my original two questions which seem to be ignored thus far: What other game facets must be altered to be consistent to a world without deities? What Paladinesque abilities can I grant to the cleric class if I remove the domain ability in order to keep it balanced?</blockquote>