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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8572811" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>The examples from my play that [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] cites are from my 5e game. They are not from material that was published.</p><p></p><p>One involved a hag escaping from a battle essentially because she “was supposed” to get away so we could face her again later. The second involved my use of my Ranger’s Folk Hero background feature to avoid a conflict and the GM essentially bypassing it to ensure a conflict happened. </p><p></p><p>I would say that the 5e system and general approach were very much a part of the reason why these things happened. Part of that is the requirement of prepared material. You say “published” but I’d say “prepared” is more fitting. In both cases, the GM was essentially trying to preserve what he’d prepared.</p><p></p><p>I’d also attribute the fuzziness of certain rules/processes as a factor. How exactly does the Folk Hero background ability work? Here’s the text:</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Feature: Rustic Hospitality</em></strong></p><p><em>Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you</em>.</p><p></p><p>Seems to me like it should just work. And it did… until our PCs woke in the morning to find the farmhouse they’d taken shelter in was surrounded by the duke’s men. How did that happen? The GM admitted to doing this because he felt no conflict was “too easy” and he thought a showdown with the duke’s men from inside a surrounded farmhouse would be an exciting scene (he mentioned the final scene of “Young Guns” as coming to mind). </p><p></p><p>Nothing he did here was against the rules or processes of the game. That’s what I found frustrating. No checks or dice rolls… just the GM deciding “this is what’s going to happen”. And while I think that may be fine at times, especially in establishing a scene or initiating a scenario, doing it in response to a player move and basically rendering that move pointless seems questionable. I think many folks would be at least somewhat frustrated by that. </p><p></p><p>And although you are correct that this can happen in games besides 5e, there are also games where it would not happen. Where the mechanics and processes are designed to avoid such things, where they are sufficiently player facing so that the results of play are clear. Where the principles of play are clearly stated and would actively discourage this kind of decision. Such games actively discourage that kind of thing, and make it clear as day to the players that the GM went against the principles of play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 8572811, member: 6785785"] The examples from my play that [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] cites are from my 5e game. They are not from material that was published. One involved a hag escaping from a battle essentially because she “was supposed” to get away so we could face her again later. The second involved my use of my Ranger’s Folk Hero background feature to avoid a conflict and the GM essentially bypassing it to ensure a conflict happened. I would say that the 5e system and general approach were very much a part of the reason why these things happened. Part of that is the requirement of prepared material. You say “published” but I’d say “prepared” is more fitting. In both cases, the GM was essentially trying to preserve what he’d prepared. I’d also attribute the fuzziness of certain rules/processes as a factor. How exactly does the Folk Hero background ability work? Here’s the text: [B][I]Feature: Rustic Hospitality[/I][/B] [I]Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you[/I]. Seems to me like it should just work. And it did… until our PCs woke in the morning to find the farmhouse they’d taken shelter in was surrounded by the duke’s men. How did that happen? The GM admitted to doing this because he felt no conflict was “too easy” and he thought a showdown with the duke’s men from inside a surrounded farmhouse would be an exciting scene (he mentioned the final scene of “Young Guns” as coming to mind). Nothing he did here was against the rules or processes of the game. That’s what I found frustrating. No checks or dice rolls… just the GM deciding “this is what’s going to happen”. And while I think that may be fine at times, especially in establishing a scene or initiating a scenario, doing it in response to a player move and basically rendering that move pointless seems questionable. I think many folks would be at least somewhat frustrated by that. And although you are correct that this can happen in games besides 5e, there are also games where it would not happen. Where the mechanics and processes are designed to avoid such things, where they are sufficiently player facing so that the results of play are clear. Where the principles of play are clearly stated and would actively discourage this kind of decision. Such games actively discourage that kind of thing, and make it clear as day to the players that the GM went against the principles of play. [/QUOTE]
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