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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Giltonio_Santos" data-source="post: 6331191" data-attributes="member: 36874">It's interesting that I strongly disagree with the OP about his conclusions, and still I don't know how to put this into a reasonable argument, because I don't see any problem in his math. He arrives at the conclusion that the rogue is twice and the wizard is nine times more useful than the fighter, and while I cannot criticize the methods he used to arrive at this conclusion, I just know, from my last seven months playing the game, that at least our reality couldn't be farther from that.That said, I cannot see how one would be able to solve his problem without realizing that the problem is not the fighter or the rogue. You could give those two classes access to all the skills in the rules and they wouldn't be as versatile as spellcasters, because of how magic works in D&D, by creating small pockets of exception-based design. Well, you could have more exception-based design pockets for other classes, surely, but you'll eventually stumble at the fact that their abilities cannot be explained through magic. Suddenly, you have fighters screaming "come and get it!" and warlords offering martial healing to unconscious allies, but also thousand of fans migrating to Pathfinder... :/Honestly, I don't expect anything in the PHB (or the DMG) to change that. We'll get options for non-magical characters, but we'll also get new spells that make wizards and clerics even more versatile. I don't know if this is fair (it seems it's not fair at all), but D&D played this way for the last 40 years, and I don't see how that would change without changing the core of the game, which 4E did with a degree of success that is arguable at least.I've been playing warrior-type characters for the last twenty years, and about half of them were fighters. I'll keep playing them for the time to come even without the same level of versatility of my buddies playing the cleric and the wizard. As long as I get to do my thing, which is basically killing stuff and using the NWPs from my kit (or skills from my background, as kids call them these days), I'll be fine with the game. If making my fighter more special implies in making magic less special, I'll be fine not being very special.</blockquote>

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