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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6331514" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Sorry, I'm tapped out <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Regardless of how Concentration works out, regardless of how the saving throw proficiency system works out, regardless of Fighters having a good Con bonus and ST proficiency, regardless of Athletics, regardless of a wee bit more HP and higher HD, my final analysis is going to be what I said above:Mundane, even if relatively broad and at-will, skills (underwritten by a BUTMUNDANE gaming culture) working in a task resolution system cannot compete with the outright problem-solving, scene-reframing/transitioning capacity-by-fiat intrinsic to an open-descriptor, even if limited-use, spellcasting system (underwritten by a BUTMAGIC gaming culture).  Unify the two in a discrete conflict resolution system and there will be some measure of parity.  Without it there is just no way.So, in summation:- Unified conflict resolutionor- Nerf the hell out of spells or codify/limit their scopeor- Open up the fiat ability of spellcasting to everyone by giving mundanes abilities like   @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=20323" target="_blank">Quickleaf</a>  's Schrodinger's Rogue above.Or.  Live with the consequences of inferior mundane characters.  The problem is that several folks would rather live with inferior mundane characters than implement any of the above problem-solvers.</blockquote>

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