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Message: <blockquote data-quote="monboesen" data-source="post: 2160553" data-attributes="member: 4647">The character levels and the type of foes are also an important factor in this regard. In the last game I actually played in (rather than dm) I was a dwarf cleric. A quiet unassuming bloke who happily let his fighter/ranger/paladin friends handle most combat. He didn't have great stats or any magical equipment. The campaign was very similar to nemmerles in the approach to magic, both spells and items.This was about at the time 3ed came out and we quicly switched from a homebrew 2ed to 3ed. I think we started out in 3ed rules at 3rd level. At this relative low level Thrain was somewhat weak. He could heal, he could take a hit well. But overall he did not contribute much to the groups succes.When we ended the campaign he was level 9. At this point the entire group (6 players) was entirely dependent on my dwarf cleric and the human wizard. Without them they could never have won the fights at that level. Neither would they have succeded in revealing plots or finding the true enemies (though a face man could have done some of that).This was IMO only going to get worse as we climbed in levels. At high levels, fighting high level worthy magical opponents (dragons, demons, wicked wizards and so on) you won't win without magic.The less magic a campign includes, the more powerful those that have it becomes. Of course fighters will be powerful. Until they face a foe with dmr they cant cut through. Or a flying enemy with powerful ranged attacks. Or a demon with a myriad of spell like abilities (and often both of the above as well) that requires will saves.</blockquote>

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