Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Out with the old (Game design traditions we should let go)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8673738" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>It depends on the heaviness of the system. In rules-heavy games, the only "creativity" I've seen mechanics push players into is gaming the system for their own benefit. All of the actually creative stuff I've seen has been either in lighter games or well outside the scope of whatever mechanics we've been playing with at the time. Creativity completely outside the rules is things like redirecting a river to flood a dungeon.</p><p></p><p>Quite a lot, clearly. The people playing free-form would hardly describe their games as "kids playing with toys in the sandbox" but that shows your bias more than you seem to think.</p><p></p><p>Well, when looking at their stand-alone work or the projects they did for themselves, you can see a clear pattern. Tweet prefers more rules; Laws prefers less rules. It's not bias to honestly look at their work and compare them. Both wrote Over the Edge 2E which I quoted from. You then decided to single out Tweet alone and claim that clearly it was only pretty words based on his other design work. I pointed out that you ignored the other designer who's got an equally long history of design who tends toward lighter rules. And now you're claiming it's bias to point that out.</p><p></p><p>If only it were that easy. There's an awful lot of clearly toxic behavior that is standard practice in the hobby but it's so ingrained that people don't question it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8673738, member: 86653"] It depends on the heaviness of the system. In rules-heavy games, the only "creativity" I've seen mechanics push players into is gaming the system for their own benefit. All of the actually creative stuff I've seen has been either in lighter games or well outside the scope of whatever mechanics we've been playing with at the time. Creativity completely outside the rules is things like redirecting a river to flood a dungeon. Quite a lot, clearly. The people playing free-form would hardly describe their games as "kids playing with toys in the sandbox" but that shows your bias more than you seem to think. Well, when looking at their stand-alone work or the projects they did for themselves, you can see a clear pattern. Tweet prefers more rules; Laws prefers less rules. It's not bias to honestly look at their work and compare them. Both wrote Over the Edge 2E which I quoted from. You then decided to single out Tweet alone and claim that clearly it was only pretty words based on his other design work. I pointed out that you ignored the other designer who's got an equally long history of design who tends toward lighter rules. And now you're claiming it's bias to point that out. If only it were that easy. There's an awful lot of clearly toxic behavior that is standard practice in the hobby but it's so ingrained that people don't question it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Out with the old (Game design traditions we should let go)
Top