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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7114265" data-attributes="member: 20564">Here's your strawman:Seems pretty clear to me.  I never made any claim that performing poorly would lead to a TPK, but you attempt to redefine my statement as that.If you are uncertain what you wrote, your own advice was to reread your post."par" is what a general replacement character of the same general niche would bring to the table.  In baseball metrics it's VORP, "value over replacement player" - what an average player in that position would be expected to bring.A character well below par will not be able to hold up their party of the party as well as a generic replacement character of the same niche.This isn't a judgement on playing style - I've played intentionally flawed characters and enjoyed it.  But when a player wants to create an effective character but the rules let them down, that's what I'm trying to avoid.Here again are my statements.  If you do not agree with please provide counter examples, not handwaving.1.  Delaying ASIs a long time (3 levels or more) can make a character less effective.2.  There is a power bump for the classes at 5th (and a lesser one at 11th) and delaying getting there can also can make a character less effective.Please provide general cases to back up your statements, not just one-off corner cases.</blockquote>