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<blockquote data-quote="isoChron" data-source="post: 1581454" data-attributes="member: 5927">As I mentioned several times I want to make an encounter against a standard group containing that wizard. This encounter shouldn't use a magic using character class. &nbsp;So no cleric with magic domain and no spells from other books/sources (since we restricted&nbsp; our list to PHB, DMG, MM, MM2, Monsters of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, S&amp;F, S&amp;F, MotW, T&amp;B, DotF and FRCS; this is a list long enough to cause DM's headaches).&nbsp;&nbsp;And I can't see how a spell get's balanced only if you allow other sources in your game. I always thought a spell must be balanced even if you you the PHB alone ... *Shrug*&nbsp;&nbsp;And again I ask you if you can throw a sack of flour 50ft up in the sky (given that the wizard is dumb enough to be directly above you as he sees you concentrating on the sky with a dusty sack in your hand ...).&nbsp;Even then you have a 50% miss chance (invisibility). So even if your ranged touch attack would hit at 50ft he isn't affected half of the time.&nbsp;&nbsp;quote pax&nbsp; Then, frankly, yoru characters were dumb, and/or the GM outright hosed&nbsp; you. No defensive preparations? No Contingencies? You ALL lost initiative,&nbsp; and the GM decreed it was a surprise? And you were all riding that CLOSE&nbsp; together ... ?!?&nbsp;&nbsp;Well I don't know how you travel overland in times of peace. we stick together and don't ride all along with 30ft distance between us. Remember we were 7 party members on the move through open country. &nbsp;Yes sure we could all ride several tenth of feet apart and cast see invisibility the whole day over but that seems not very plausible for me. &nbsp;And yes he surprised us. He fired out of the blue sky (invis., greater) so how should we not be surprised ??? &nbsp;And some of our group had a better INI than the wizi. The Paladin for example. He managed to get his bow and strung it ... before his horse (and most other) was blast to death by a fireball.&nbsp;The contingency was a Dim.Door in case some melee attacked the party wizard .... not very good against a casting wizard.&nbsp;I don't think we played the characters dumb but simply realistic. Your character may ride apart from your companions and don't talk a word the whole boring day without reason. Our characters were friends with a life.&nbsp;&nbsp;And you can't target someone if you know the square but you can't see him. No targetted spells, only a very good chance to get him with area spells.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="isoChron, post: 1581454, member: 5927"] As I mentioned several times I want to make an encounter against a standard group containing that wizard. This encounter shouldn't use a magic using character class. So no cleric with magic domain and no spells from other books/sources (since we restricted our list to PHB, DMG, MM, MM2, Monsters of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, S&F, S&F, MotW, T&B, DotF and FRCS; this is a list long enough to cause DM's headaches). And I can't see how a spell get's balanced only if you allow other sources in your game. I always thought a spell must be balanced even if you you the PHB alone ... *Shrug* And again I ask you if you can throw a sack of flour 50ft up in the sky (given that the wizard is dumb enough to be directly above you as he sees you concentrating on the sky with a dusty sack in your hand ...). Even then you have a 50% miss chance (invisibility). So even if your ranged touch attack would hit at 50ft he isn't affected half of the time. quote pax Then, frankly, yoru characters were [i]dumb[/i], and/or the GM outright hosed you. No defensive preparations? No Contingencies? You ALL lost initiative, [b]and[/b] the GM decreed it was a surprise? And you were all riding that CLOSE together ... ?!? Well I don't know how you travel overland in times of peace. we stick together and don't ride all along with 30ft distance between us. Remember we were 7 party members on the move through open country. Yes sure we could all ride several tenth of feet apart and cast see invisibility the whole day over but that seems not very plausible for me. And yes he surprised us. He fired out of the blue sky (invis., greater) so how should we not be surprised ??? And some of our group had a better INI than the wizi. The Paladin for example. He managed to get his bow and strung it ... before his horse (and most other) was blast to death by a fireball. The contingency was a Dim.Door in case some melee attacked the party wizard .... not very good against a casting wizard. I don't think we played the characters dumb but simply realistic. Your character may ride apart from your companions and don't talk a word the whole boring day without reason. Our characters were friends with a life. And you can't target someone if you know the square but you can't see him. No targetted spells, only a very good chance to get him with area spells. [/QUOTE]

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