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<blockquote data-quote="The Souljourner" data-source="post: 1586930" data-attributes="member: 1622">Gotta agree with those that say that a standard 15th level party shouldn't have died to a single well-prepared 11th level caster.&nbsp; I don't hold with the &quot;permancied X is a must have&quot;.&nbsp; In fact, permanency is total crap, and no one I know has ever used it in 3.x.&nbsp; Spending XP that can be blown away by a single 3rd level spell (dispel magic)?&nbsp; Hell no.&nbsp; However, a standard 3.0 15th level party should wake up and cast a bunch of day long buff spells that will keep them alive from the numerous baddies that have any ability to actually threaten the god-like beings they are.Now.. it sounds like your 15th level group was somewhat weaker than standard, most of them having below average Con (at least, below average for D&amp;D characters that survive that long) and below average hitpoints to boot.&nbsp; Add in the ridiculous damage you can do with magic missile and 3.0 haste, and you had to realize you were going to kill off the two wizards pretty much right off the bat.Once they're dead, you had to know the rest of the party really can't do much against a flying invisible wizard...&nbsp; This smacks of DM error.&nbsp; Not that you broke the rules, but that the PCs were put in a position where they were almost certain to lose.&nbsp; There's a reason why D&amp;D requires a DM - the DM is supposed to judge the difficulty of the encounter and balance it against the strength of the party.&nbsp; If this was supposed to be an insanely difficult fight that could easily result in half the party dying, then ok.... but most people don't like that kind of thing being a surprise.&nbsp; Go up against a huge dragon that you know is going to kick your butt... ok.&nbsp;&nbsp; Getting jumped on the way home from the grocery store?&nbsp; Not so much.Back on topic - Silence is good, but only against spellcasters and only against spellcasters who can't move out of the area of effect (which isn't that big).10 min per level for the buffs would be nice.&nbsp; The only spell I ever see cast is bull's strength, and that's almost always from the druid who has nothing better to do with his second level spells, and probably should have already turned into a bear and mauled people instead.-The Souljourner</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Souljourner, post: 1586930, member: 1622"] Gotta agree with those that say that a standard 15th level party shouldn't have died to a single well-prepared 11th level caster. I don't hold with the "permancied X is a must have". In fact, permanency is total crap, and no one I know has ever used it in 3.x. Spending XP that can be blown away by a single 3rd level spell (dispel magic)? Hell no. However, a standard 3.0 15th level party should wake up and cast a bunch of day long buff spells that will keep them alive from the numerous baddies that have any ability to actually threaten the god-like beings they are. Now.. it sounds like your 15th level group was somewhat weaker than standard, most of them having below average Con (at least, below average for D&D characters that survive that long) and below average hitpoints to boot. Add in the ridiculous damage you can do with magic missile and 3.0 haste, and you had to realize you were going to kill off the two wizards pretty much right off the bat. Once they're dead, you had to know the rest of the party really can't do much against a flying invisible wizard... This smacks of DM error. Not that you broke the rules, but that the PCs were put in a position where they were almost certain to lose. There's a reason why D&D requires a DM - the DM is supposed to judge the difficulty of the encounter and balance it against the strength of the party. If this was supposed to be an insanely difficult fight that could easily result in half the party dying, then ok.... but most people don't like that kind of thing being a surprise. Go up against a huge dragon that you know is going to kick your butt... ok. Getting jumped on the way home from the grocery store? Not so much. Back on topic - Silence is good, but only against spellcasters and only against spellcasters who can't move out of the area of effect (which isn't that big). 10 min per level for the buffs would be nice. The only spell I ever see cast is bull's strength, and that's almost always from the druid who has nothing better to do with his second level spells, and probably should have already turned into a bear and mauled people instead. -The Souljourner [/QUOTE]

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