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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1587368" data-attributes="member: 6875">That was one sorry wizard, then, in terms of hp; I've got to agree with Thanee, 66hp at 15th level seems a bit slim.&nbsp; Even with just a singly-Empowered Endurance for his waking hours, that's +3-6 Constitution, an average of +4.5, for +30hp right there.&nbsp; Given an average of 2.5hp after 1st level, no innate constitution modifier (which would be silly, but we'll assume it anyway) ... that comes to 69hp.&nbsp; Given a smarter wizard build (one with a CON modifier of +1 or +2 - the wizard NEEDS those bonus HP more than the fighters do!), a 15th level Wizard should be in the low 80's for hitpoints, on average.&nbsp; And just to supprot the above: I had a Necromancer/Loremaster, 15th level in fact, under 3.0 rules.&nbsp; Constitution was his second-best attribute, at 16.&nbsp; Endurance, singly-empowered, was on my spell list every day, and was cast first thing.&nbsp; His hitpoints were a bit BELOW average (only 36 from hit dice), but I could generally count on +75 from constitution, for over 100hp each day.&nbsp; Since &quot;the other wizard&quot; was a Rogue/Wizard multiclass, he should have had MORE hitpoints (rogues average +1hp per level, compared to wizards).&nbsp; Grievous tactical error - made that MORNING, in fact.&nbsp; Whatever was the player THINKING, not to have at least ONE Invisibility Purge prepared for the day ...?!?&nbsp; Targetted spells raining down - the smart thing would have been an obscuring mist to conceal the party from the enemy's sight, and buy some breathing room.&nbsp; Inexcusable tactical error, there!&nbsp; At 15th level, if someone drops - leave 'em, and try to take out the THREAT, before it drops YOU.&nbsp; The party cleric, if he lives (and he should, he's got two good saves and plenty of hitpoints), can bring his 'mates back to life the next morning, at the worst.&nbsp; Facing a spellcaster, and they didn't spread out ... ?&nbsp; Yes, that was the primary problem with that encounter - the wizard was able to double- and triple-cast.&nbsp; The REST of the problem, though, was extremely poor forethought, and a lackadaisical attitude, on the part of hte PC's and their players.&nbsp; The cleric should have cast invisibility purge, first thing.&nbsp; The Druid, meanwhile, should have cast obscuring mist (or the like), to conceal the party from the enemy.&nbsp; Throw in some healing spells, especially of hte Mass variety, and then go after that silly, foolish wizard(11) who just comitted &quot;suicide by PC&quot;.&nbsp; Apsuman's analysys is also ... interesting.&nbsp; It leaves me, still, with some serious doubts as to the veracity of accounts regarding that encounter, sorry.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pax, post: 1587368, member: 6875"] That was one sorry wizard, then, in terms of hp; I've got to agree with Thanee, 66hp at 15th level seems a bit slim. Even with just a singly-Empowered Endurance for his waking hours, that's +3-6 Constitution, an average of +4.5, for +30hp right there. Given an average of 2.5hp after 1st level, no innate constitution modifier (which would be silly, but we'll assume it anyway) ... that comes to 69hp. Given a smarter wizard build (one with a CON modifier of +1 or +2 - the wizard NEEDS those bonus HP more than the fighters do!), a 15th level Wizard should be in the low 80's for hitpoints, [i]on average[/i]. And just to supprot the above: I had a Necromancer/Loremaster, 15th level in fact, under 3.0 rules. Constitution was his second-best attribute, at 16. Endurance, singly-empowered, was on my spell list every day, and was [b]cast[/b] first thing. His hitpoints were a bit BELOW average (only 36 from hit dice), but I could generally [b]count[/b] on +75 from constitution, for over 100hp each day. Since "the other wizard" was a Rogue/Wizard multiclass, he should have had MORE hitpoints (rogues average +1hp per level, compared to wizards). Grievous tactical error - made that MORNING, in fact. Whatever was the player THINKING, not to have at least ONE Invisibility Purge prepared for the day ...?!? Targetted spells raining down - the smart thing would have been an [i]obscuring mist[/i] to conceal the party from the enemy's sight, and buy some breathing room. [i]Inexcusable[/i] tactical error, there! At 15th level, if someone drops - leave 'em, and try to take out the THREAT, before it drops YOU. The party cleric, if he lives (and he should, he's got two good saves and plenty of hitpoints), can bring his 'mates back to life the next morning, at the worst. Facing a spellcaster, [b]and they didn't spread out[/b] ... ? Yes, that was the primary problem with that encounter - the wizard was able to double- and triple-cast. The REST of the problem, though, was extremely poor forethought, and a lackadaisical attitude, on the part of hte PC's and their players. The cleric should have cast [i]invisibility purge[/i], first thing. The Druid, meanwhile, should have cast [i]obscuring mist[/i] (or the like), to conceal the party from the enemy. Throw in some healing spells, especially of hte [i]Mass[/i] variety, and then go after that silly, foolish wizard(11) who just comitted "suicide by PC". Apsuman's analysys is also ... [i]interesting[/i]. It leaves me, still, with some serious doubts as to the veracity of accounts regarding that encounter, sorry. [/QUOTE]

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