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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1589504" data-attributes="member: 5777">That is fine, but I'll post a few counters. It wont solve anything between us in all likelyhood <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I have never seen problem one with haste in any game I have run or been in, but there have been dozens of problems with improved invis all over the place.Haste was more of a workaround for a problem inherant in the system, much like the mystic theurge. There has yet to be a completely workable solution within the core, although I have several houserules that work fine now.Yep, but you just got surprised, and now you are useing your turn to cast a spell just so that 'next turn' you can have a useful action. Effectively the enemy has 2 full turns to act.Range is too short.If you could guess where they were at well enough to drop this, then you are probably better of blasting with something bigger, and are one of the luckiest people on earth.For your fix we are looking at: surprise round, first round you get to where you can see the opponent, second round you do something so that others can see the opponent. Now the enemy probably has around 3 actions before anything useful happens. The turns are just piling up now.Sure, but then the 11th level mage is useing a 'first level spell'. It may be a good one, but it certainly shouldnt be dropping any 15th level characters, even on the third casting (if it does then something is seriously wrong with the party, as has been said before).But still, no one knows where the bad guy is, and the badguy could have blasted with a number of better spells instead.So, without haste, the guy uses one less 1st level spell (assuming rods of metamagic of course). But then he could have instead dropped an empowered fireball and fried the whole party at once.With haste he could do even more damage, but the total damage dealt by a full barage round of empowered fireballs shouldnt be enough to take out a 15th level wizard (who should have the least hp), let alone anyone else in the party.At this point: with haste but no improved invis everyone is hurt, mage is near death, but everyone knows where the enemy is and can do whatever they want with impunity. 7 15th level characters, 1 11th level wizard = 11th level wizard is dead.Without haste but with improved invis: everyone is hurt, no one knows where the badguy is, someone will cast see invis and maybe glitterdust next round. Granting the badguy at least one more round of actions. Which is more than the haste does.With both, dead party because they were not prepared in a useful fashion.Again, at the end of round 1 we still have a full party members alive, and the enemy dead without improved invis but with haste even.With improved invis, haste or not, the whole party is going to be dead (with this group at least).So, which is the broken one? haste was barely even a blip on the radar. Nice? of course, but broken? no way, that honored position falls to improved invis by nearly the whole track.Edit: especially since the extra haste action only happens on rounds where you have a full turn. On surprise rounds you only get single action, so no haste bonus.</blockquote>

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