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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9632801" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p>I didn't know what to do with bringing up <em>Roseanne </em>(or <em>Married With Children</em>). They are concurrent with <em>Seinfeld </em>(started at the end of the 80s) and kinda found their footing alongside it. <em>Friends </em>and <em>Frasier </em>and such definitely* were built with reaction to <em>Seinfeld</em>'s success in mind, whereas these two (although they did evolve as they went along, perhaps <u>in part</u> in reaction to it) started out with their own transgressive energies. They are weird, in that they are in many ways just as edgy, vulgar, or with unsympathetic protagonists, but in a way that seemed more familiar to what came before (<em>Married With Children</em> notably being <em>The Honeymooners</em> meets <em>All in the Family</em>, just with the male protagonist aware that he was the butt of the joke). I'm trying desperately to figure out how these are different from Seinfeld (because it sure feels like they are), but not coming up with anything. <span style="font-size: 10px">*to the point where we've heard the stories about them being asked to 'be more like <em>Seinfeld</em>'</span></p><p></p><p>Alzrius's complaint is valid. The term I always use is unsympathetic protagonists. They are occasionally villainous in a 'you would never actually want to know these people,' but not universally. What seems more consistent is that they are deeply foolish and flawed people who end up causing problems where ever they go, and, in general, we the audience delight in them getting their comeuppance (compared to Ralph Kramden or Archie Bunker or Roseanne, who in general I think we'd rather learn an important lesson by the end of the episode). That's about all I can come up with* that makes <em>Seinfeld </em>unique -- they set themselves up as bad enough that you actually want them to fail.</p><p><span style="font-size: 10px">*and I'm not 100% convinced myself. </span></p><h4></h4><h4></h4></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 9632801, member: 6799660"] I didn't know what to do with bringing up [I]Roseanne [/I](or [I]Married With Children[/I]). They are concurrent with [I]Seinfeld [/I](started at the end of the 80s) and kinda found their footing alongside it. [I]Friends [/I]and [I]Frasier [/I]and such definitely* were built with reaction to [I]Seinfeld[/I]'s success in mind, whereas these two (although they did evolve as they went along, perhaps [U]in part[/U] in reaction to it) started out with their own transgressive energies. They are weird, in that they are in many ways just as edgy, vulgar, or with unsympathetic protagonists, but in a way that seemed more familiar to what came before ([I]Married With Children[/I] notably being [I]The Honeymooners[/I] meets [I]All in the Family[/I], just with the male protagonist aware that he was the butt of the joke). I'm trying desperately to figure out how these are different from Seinfeld (because it sure feels like they are), but not coming up with anything. [SIZE=2]*to the point where we've heard the stories about them being asked to 'be more like [I]Seinfeld[/I]'[/SIZE] Alzrius's complaint is valid. The term I always use is unsympathetic protagonists. They are occasionally villainous in a 'you would never actually want to know these people,' but not universally. What seems more consistent is that they are deeply foolish and flawed people who end up causing problems where ever they go, and, in general, we the audience delight in them getting their comeuppance (compared to Ralph Kramden or Archie Bunker or Roseanne, who in general I think we'd rather learn an important lesson by the end of the episode). That's about all I can come up with* that makes [I]Seinfeld [/I]unique -- they set themselves up as bad enough that you actually want them to fail. [SIZE=2]*and I'm not 100% convinced myself. [/SIZE] [HEADING=3][/HEADING] [HEADING=3][/HEADING] [/QUOTE]
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