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<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 3785516" data-attributes="member: 1757">You mean the Silmarillion, I take it? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I think White Whale's point about the availability of fly, silence, create food, teleport, etc etc holds perfectly true. What exactly do the elves or wizards of Middle-Earth do that even approaches such ubiquitous twisting of reality?While the Ring may be an artifact-level item in D&amp;D terms, what convinces you that Narsil is? Its major importance is as an heirloom and a symbol.&nbsp; All meaningless stuff for purposes of determining things like &quot;level&quot; or &quot;magic availability&quot; in the D&amp;D context. Who knows how powerful a balrog actually is in D&amp;D game terms? Or how high level Saruman is? His primary powers as a Maiar of Aule are his ability to build stuff (and even something like a crystal ball is beyond his capabilities) and persuade with his voice, both powers available to low-level wizards in D&amp;D. The problem is that &quot;high-magic&quot; doesn't really apply in most literary fantasy settings to the way in works in D&amp;D. D&amp;D is much more like the Marvel universe or DCU than like Middle-Earth. None of the characters in something like LotR pull off anything that would be more than a low-level feat in D&amp;D terms; the fact that in the context of the story, it sounds like a big deal isn't really relevant to the mechanics, such as they are, underlying the act. This is an issue relevant to ALL editions of D&amp;D, ever since spells like invisibility, fly, polymorph, teleport, and raise dead were part of the setting.Just my 2 cents.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 3785516, member: 1757"] You mean the Silmarillion, I take it? ;) I think White Whale's point about the availability of fly, silence, create food, teleport, etc etc holds perfectly true. What exactly do the elves or wizards of Middle-Earth do that even approaches such ubiquitous twisting of reality? While the Ring may be an artifact-level item in D&D terms, what convinces you that Narsil is? Its major importance is as an heirloom and a symbol. All meaningless stuff for purposes of determining things like "level" or "magic availability" in the D&D context. Who knows how powerful a balrog actually is in D&D game terms? Or how high level Saruman is? His primary powers as a Maiar of Aule are his ability to build stuff (and even something like a crystal ball is beyond his capabilities) and persuade with his voice, both powers available to low-level wizards in D&D. The problem is that "high-magic" doesn't really apply in most literary fantasy settings to the way in works in D&D. D&D is much more like the Marvel universe or DCU than like Middle-Earth. None of the characters in something like LotR pull off anything that would be more than a low-level feat in D&D terms; the fact that in the context of the story, it [i]sounds[/i] like a big deal isn't really relevant to the mechanics, such as they are, underlying the act. This is an issue relevant to ALL editions of D&D, ever since spells like invisibility, fly, polymorph, teleport, and raise dead were part of the setting. Just my 2 cents. [/QUOTE]

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