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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3787190" data-attributes="member: 18280">Correct.&nbsp; Some of the toys given out at Bilbo's party were magical, of genuine dwarf-make.&nbsp; OTOH, what those toys could do is never explained.&nbsp; Within the context of LotR, this is liable to be some pretty petty magic indeed.Except, apart from the movie version, Narsil wasn't used to banish a god.&nbsp; Sauron was the servant of a god, Morgoth, at first.&nbsp; He was certainly a powerful being of the class of beings to which Gandalf belonged.&nbsp; But not a god.&nbsp; Moreover, in the novel, a shard of Narsil was used to cut the Ring from Sauron's hand.&nbsp; Loss of the Ring, perhaps, left Sauron without form (although still not banished).It is quite clear in The Hobbit, BTW, that a bunch of goblins and wargs can kill Gandalf, so this isn't some kind of uber-feat.Frodo is emphatically not dead when he reaches Rivendell.&nbsp; The Nazgul's dagger wasn't killing Frodo, but transforming him into a wraith.&nbsp; What Elrond did wasn't even a complete cure.....more along the lines of a very effective slow poison.&nbsp; Gandalf believed that, in the end, Frodo would become like a clear glass, filled with light for those with eyes to see.As is thinking that D&amp;D was always, overall, as &quot;magic as technology&quot;-oriented as it is today.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3787190, member: 18280"] Correct. Some of the toys given out at Bilbo's party were magical, of genuine dwarf-make. OTOH, what those toys could [i]do[/i] is never explained. Within the context of LotR, this is liable to be some pretty petty magic indeed. Except, apart from the movie version, Narsil wasn't used to banish a god. Sauron was the servant of a god, Morgoth, at first. He was certainly a powerful being of the class of beings to which Gandalf belonged. But not a god. Moreover, in the novel, a shard of Narsil was used to cut the Ring from Sauron's hand. Loss of the Ring, perhaps, left Sauron without form (although still not banished). It is quite clear in [i]The Hobbit[/i], BTW, that a bunch of goblins and wargs can kill Gandalf, so this isn't some kind of uber-feat. Frodo is emphatically not dead when he reaches Rivendell. The Nazgul's dagger wasn't killing Frodo, but transforming him into a wraith. What Elrond did wasn't even a complete cure.....more along the lines of a very effective [i]slow poison[/i]. Gandalf believed that, in the end, Frodo would become like a clear glass, filled with light for those with eyes to see. As is thinking that D&D was always, overall, as "magic as technology"-oriented as it is today. RC [/QUOTE]

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