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Pact of the Blade / Bladelock, looking for thoughts
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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6620047" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>Bullets: </p><p></p><p>* Variant human uses a feat for it; mountain dwarf; or multiclass cleric, fighter, or paladin; or just take the hit on opportunity cost because that happens no matter which class a person plays. Or possibly a DEX based but that gets more complicated to build, imo, and still be competitive.</p><p>* It's not as significant as a person might think. Polearm master grants that extra attack and allows STR (and CHA eventually) on the extra attack to leave agonizing blast far behind. Eldritch blast would be best used with crossbow master because of the disadvantage on attacks with hostiles within 5 ft. It's really only 1 more invocation with the potential for more combat feats. Polearm master and thirsting blade together puts weapon use ahead of eldritch blast without difficulty and is pretty good adding CHA later as well. 3d10+15 isn't as much as 2d10+1d4+15+6 with only a +2 CHA bonus, for example.</p><p>* The best damage cantrip in the game still doesn't keep up to weapon damage with feats. That's why. This is particularly true at lower levels because of extra attacks from class features, feats, or TWF. The cantrips won't be competitive until 17th level.</p><p></p><p>I would keep that in mind with any house rule changes and the thing to really watch out for is unexpected synergy with other aspects of the game. I can already take 1 level of fighter to start with for armor, CON save proficiency, and a fighting style. Giving medium armor and shield proficiency isn't a big deal if it's easy to acquire for little downside anyway. It does marginalize the proficiency bonus a person might get by taking dwarf as a race because the armor, STR, and CON all work for the subclass anyway.</p><p></p><p>1. This is minor but doesn't have much flavor. I don't actually see it as necessary because it's not difficult to acquire.</p><p>2. The reason this isn't done is because that's the level 3rd-level spells become available. Subclasses and classes are structured with paced abilities in their levels and you'll notice class progression is blank as 3rd level spells open up. What you intend is to break that pattern by giving a strong ability to one subclass for free and not other subclasses. 3rd level spells is pretty strong when you cast all your spells in that slot multiple times and why it's part of the invocations with a cost.</p><p>3. All you've done is add an invocation requirement after trying to remove invocation requirements. Heavy armor proficiency is very limited in the game. You would be better off making medium armor the invocation, IMO.</p><p>4. There's no point using eldritch blast if a person has invested in weapon ability scores and feats. Eldritch blast does less damage. There's no point in taking agonizing blast unless a person wants a ranged option but CHA is likely lacking behind as secondary to the main attack ability score.</p><p>5. There's no point, again. Eldritch blast does not do more damage than weapons. </p><p>6. MAD happens to all hybrid caster / melee. Just let the combat or the magic be more important and take a small hit. A 17 or 18 spell DC instead of a 19 on a melee build will still be okay and give a good damage bonus from lifedrinker. I think MAD is preferable in many cases because classes with access to high levels of magic (including blade warlocks) shouldn't also have access to great armor, high damage, etc without some cost or tradeoff. It's too easy to marginalize other classes that don't have such access to the magic and already focus on combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I do think there is room for more invocations to increase specialization and that would be the route to go. I wouldn't remove thirsting blade and give it for free. I would leave it as is. I would also consider medium armor and shield as an invocation and heavy armor as another invocation requiring the first one.</p><p></p><p>I wouldn't do anything to give more damage; consider what you can already do with 2 or 3 attacks plus all the available bonuses plus magical bonuses via weapon or other magic plus the fact you might harvest or find a way to purchase poisons. Serpent venom is fairly affordable early and half damage on a save is still a bonus to damage not available on eldritch blast, even with the lowish save on it.</p><p></p><p>Hope the feedback helps. It's not meant to be argumentative but I understand how it can appear on the internet.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 6620047, member: 6750235"] Bullets: * Variant human uses a feat for it; mountain dwarf; or multiclass cleric, fighter, or paladin; or just take the hit on opportunity cost because that happens no matter which class a person plays. Or possibly a DEX based but that gets more complicated to build, imo, and still be competitive. * It's not as significant as a person might think. Polearm master grants that extra attack and allows STR (and CHA eventually) on the extra attack to leave agonizing blast far behind. Eldritch blast would be best used with crossbow master because of the disadvantage on attacks with hostiles within 5 ft. It's really only 1 more invocation with the potential for more combat feats. Polearm master and thirsting blade together puts weapon use ahead of eldritch blast without difficulty and is pretty good adding CHA later as well. 3d10+15 isn't as much as 2d10+1d4+15+6 with only a +2 CHA bonus, for example. * The best damage cantrip in the game still doesn't keep up to weapon damage with feats. That's why. This is particularly true at lower levels because of extra attacks from class features, feats, or TWF. The cantrips won't be competitive until 17th level. I would keep that in mind with any house rule changes and the thing to really watch out for is unexpected synergy with other aspects of the game. I can already take 1 level of fighter to start with for armor, CON save proficiency, and a fighting style. Giving medium armor and shield proficiency isn't a big deal if it's easy to acquire for little downside anyway. It does marginalize the proficiency bonus a person might get by taking dwarf as a race because the armor, STR, and CON all work for the subclass anyway. 1. This is minor but doesn't have much flavor. I don't actually see it as necessary because it's not difficult to acquire. 2. The reason this isn't done is because that's the level 3rd-level spells become available. Subclasses and classes are structured with paced abilities in their levels and you'll notice class progression is blank as 3rd level spells open up. What you intend is to break that pattern by giving a strong ability to one subclass for free and not other subclasses. 3rd level spells is pretty strong when you cast all your spells in that slot multiple times and why it's part of the invocations with a cost. 3. All you've done is add an invocation requirement after trying to remove invocation requirements. Heavy armor proficiency is very limited in the game. You would be better off making medium armor the invocation, IMO. 4. There's no point using eldritch blast if a person has invested in weapon ability scores and feats. Eldritch blast does less damage. There's no point in taking agonizing blast unless a person wants a ranged option but CHA is likely lacking behind as secondary to the main attack ability score. 5. There's no point, again. Eldritch blast does not do more damage than weapons. 6. MAD happens to all hybrid caster / melee. Just let the combat or the magic be more important and take a small hit. A 17 or 18 spell DC instead of a 19 on a melee build will still be okay and give a good damage bonus from lifedrinker. I think MAD is preferable in many cases because classes with access to high levels of magic (including blade warlocks) shouldn't also have access to great armor, high damage, etc without some cost or tradeoff. It's too easy to marginalize other classes that don't have such access to the magic and already focus on combat. I do think there is room for more invocations to increase specialization and that would be the route to go. I wouldn't remove thirsting blade and give it for free. I would leave it as is. I would also consider medium armor and shield as an invocation and heavy armor as another invocation requiring the first one. I wouldn't do anything to give more damage; consider what you can already do with 2 or 3 attacks plus all the available bonuses plus magical bonuses via weapon or other magic plus the fact you might harvest or find a way to purchase poisons. Serpent venom is fairly affordable early and half damage on a save is still a bonus to damage not available on eldritch blast, even with the lowish save on it. Hope the feedback helps. It's not meant to be argumentative but I understand how it can appear on the internet. [/QUOTE]
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