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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6311740" data-attributes="member: 18">The Helm of Opposite Alignment was a terrible, idiotic thing which was great if you wanted to wreck a good party (unless they could deal with it rapidly, which was entirely down to party composition). Why would you use that comparison?Alignment in 2E was more than "role-playing aid" in how it was presented and treated by the game. Your group may have played it just as some mild thing, and ignored alignment-related rules and so on, but they were there. I agree that it largely remained that way in 3E - a lot more than an RP aid.The problem I'm pointing out, and I note that nothing you've said goes against this, is the mindset of "My alignment tells me what to do", rather than "My character makes decisions based on his motivations, which include but are not limited to his alignment". You don't think "How would an LG person respond to this?", you think "How would my PC, who is a human male, aged 22, who grew up in a crowded city, and values life and justice, respond to this?".Your Chaotic Neutral pant-stealer example is a very very good example of the sort of stupidity that alignment-first thinking produced. You get someone who makes no sense, behaves in a truly arbitrary and bizarre way, and could only exist in an RPG, and whose personality, if it ever needs to be explained, is really hard to explain. CN pant-stealer is the "Fishmalk" of D&D.(As I noted, this is pretty much what I saw with Paladins played by people who didn't normally play L or G characters - they'd usually play them as bizarre arbitrary fascists trying to avoid losing their powers, whereas people who actually gave them a personality, or who were used to playing L and/or G characters extensively with the threat of losing their powers played them as actual people, and didn't cause havoc, even if they had to say no to some plans).EDIT - To be clear, I don't hate alignment as a whole - I did once, when I was younger and scarred by this sort of idiocy, but I can see now that alignment is a pretty useful tool, so long as it is never seen as the sole motivator (or ridiculously dominant motivator) of a PC's actions. 5E looks to be doing pretty good with this - I am just a little concerned because this is the first time I've seen "alignment first" thinking in 5E, and I hope it's just to keep the entry short.</blockquote>

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