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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Derulbaskul" data-source="post: 1681421" data-attributes="member: 1581">Well, they're in the perfect place for both. Telflamm was once under the control of the Sharkjaws pirates but the Shadowmasters drove them off. Why not have the pirates return, this time as a vehicle for some crazy Cyricists (ex-Zhentarim; driven away by the Banites) to try and build their own version of Zhentil Keep here in Thesk?If you read Unapproachable East carefully, you will find that there is a major portal on the principal road that links Thesk with Shou or Kara-Tur. Perhaps as they chase down the Cyricists and "buckle swashes" they also discover this portal and use it to visit the Far East?Also, don't forget there are "Shou-towns" in various cities and towns in Thesk and also various yakuza groups. Of course, ignoring the fact that the Shou are supposed to be the FR equivalent of the Chinese and yakuza are of course from Japan, just make sure that the PCs annoy the yakuza and then chase them down with a few ninja.Hmmm, maybe this could be your point of compromise?See my suggestion about the portal above.Ahhh, yes, I just dropped a group for this very reason. Retards. They spent all their time whingeing rather than working out tactics. Assuming you don't want to drop the group, have them fight a party of lower level that uses tactics. The yakuza or Shadowmasters might be appropriate here. Alternatively, let them fight on the same side of another group who uses these sorts of tactics. Make sure, too, that you make your rolls behind the screen and fudge the results a lot to ensure that they see how useful such tactics can be.Players are generally lazy. When you find the good ones, as I now have, you treasure them and keep them and make sure no other DM steals them from you.... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Having said that, Deserts of Desolation does have some very frustrating bits so I might be slightly sympathetic toward the players here.As mentioned above, drop your old PC and let them live with the consequences. If you end up running an against the pirates/by portal to Kara-Tur adventure as suggested above, they might find that they don't need a rogue for the traps. Of course, I'm not sure who's going to detect the sneaky ninja that are creeping up on them....Hmmm, and they haven't considered that most DMs would have removed the character's paladinhood? I think you need to sit this player down with a copy of Tyr's dogma and a copy of the paladin's code and ask him to justify what he did in terms of both.Anyway, it sounds like you have a bit of work to do as the DM to train this group. Give them what they want (more or less) in a way that keeps you happy as well.</blockquote>

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