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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2358543" data-attributes="member: 141">Cure spells are instantaneous, and so are valuable when used in combat.  The vigor line of spells heal about twice as much damage, but since they take time, their utility is less.  (Also rangers and bards can use wands of cure light wounds, but not wands of lesser vigor).  For example, a cure light wounds cast by a first level cleric heals 1d8+1 hp (avg 5.5), while a lesser vigor (fast healing 1 for 10 rounds + 1 round/level) heals 11 hp.  At 5th level the values are 9.5 to 15.It occurs to me that another use of cure spells is to stabilize dying characters.  Which suggests another variant; a cure spell that does damage initially, and is more variable in effect.For example, a 1st level spell ("Lesser Painful Healing") might do 1d8 typeless damage initially, and then, if the target survives, heals 2d8 + 2 hp/level (max 2d8+10 at 5th level).  A will save reduces both amounts by half.  At 1st level this is -4 to 17 hp, avg 6.5, while at 5th level it cures between 4 and 25 hp, avg 14.5.Does this seem balanced as a first level level cleric/druid spell?  That is, is it at least as balanced as the vigor spells?  (If you think both are unbalanced, that is a yes.)  For flavor reasons painful healing spells could be taken by clerics of deities who have portfolios of suffering, purification, fire, etc.; it is also a great spell to use against undead.There would be higher level versions as well.  I'm thinking 1d8/spell level damage initially, then the equivalent of two cure spells of that level.  An alternative would be to modify the vigor spells; the target takes initial damage, then gets the benefit of an extended vigor spell.Finally, a character could take a feat, "Painful healing" allowing him to modify cure and vigor spells so they deal 1d8/spell level damage initially, then heal twice the usual amount.  No level adjustment.  Should such a feat be usable on the fly, or would the character have to decide when preparing the spell whether it should be a painful version or not?</blockquote>

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