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<blockquote data-quote="see" data-source="post: 4120287" data-attributes="member: 10531">Having something backfire spectacularly on occasion is not the same as the dungeon teeming with creatures that can see the invisible.&nbsp; If you're high enough level to cast rope trick, you're high enough level to cast invisibility; it's not unreasonable for some of your opponents to be prepared to deal with the invisible.But, going back to the original issue, and why it's in this topic at all, it was claimed that 3.x needed radical revision to end the &quot;fifteen-minute adventuring day&quot;, and a backwards-compatible Pathfinder couldn't fix that.&nbsp; Assuming we grant that rope trick makes it impossible to prevent players from engaging in the fifteen-minute adventuring day, the &quot;fix&quot; in a Pathfinder RPG could be as simple as eliminating rope trick from the game, or making the 3'x5' window detectable on a DC20 spot check like a scrying sensor, or the like, without seriously impacting backwards compatibility.Now, if your objection isn't that the &quot;fifteen-minute adventuring day&quot; is insoluble, but that non-rollercoaster play is boring, well, yeah, that would require more serious revision.&nbsp; But that's well over in de gustibus non est disputandum territory, just like my objections to, oh, 4e warlocks, 4e tieflings, 4e's planes . . .</blockquote>

[QUOTE="see, post: 4120287, member: 10531"] Having something backfire spectacularly on occasion is not the same as the dungeon teeming with creatures that can see the invisible. If you're high enough level to cast [I]rope trick[/I], you're high enough level to cast [I]invisibility[/I]; it's not unreasonable for [I]some[/I] of your opponents to be prepared to deal with the invisible. But, going back to the original issue, and why it's in this topic at all, it was claimed that 3.x needed radical revision to end the "fifteen-minute adventuring day", and a backwards-compatible Pathfinder couldn't fix that. Assuming we grant that [I]rope trick[/I] makes it impossible to prevent players from engaging in the fifteen-minute adventuring day, the "fix" in a Pathfinder RPG could be as simple as eliminating [I]rope trick[/I] from the game, or making the 3'x5' window detectable on a DC20 spot check like a scrying sensor, or the like, without seriously impacting backwards compatibility. Now, if your objection isn't that the "fifteen-minute adventuring day" is insoluble, but that non-rollercoaster play is boring, well, yeah, that would require more serious revision. But that's well over in de gustibus non est disputandum territory, just like my objections to, oh, 4e warlocks, 4e tieflings, 4e's planes . . . [/QUOTE]

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