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Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!
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<blockquote data-quote="Kobold Boots" data-source="post: 7736656" data-attributes="member: 92239"><p>Leaving the "lets bash Erik/my game is dying" stuff to those with reputation to burn and no care for human compassion or common sense.. I'll jump back into the caster balance argument from a game design perspective.</p><p></p><p>If you want to balance casting it's not a discussion that's simply about creating new rules for casting or spells. In reality its a rework of the combat system and character options from the perspective of what would actually happen to combat and character options in a world where magic happens.</p><p></p><p>1. Do not make it harder to cast than it is to swing a sword in combat.</p><p>2. Do ensure that if casters have to prep spells ahead of time in exchange for their flexibility that you enforce that prep in game.</p><p>3. Do not nerf caster ability, if they have to prep ahead of time then they need to be cool when they cast their stuff.</p><p>4. Do provide martial classes with some sort of resistance to magic or magic combat training to counteract spells*</p><p></p><p>* The above needs to be thought out more. I'm not saying magic resistance is a good idea I'm just saying that if mages can be super fiexible then the balancing point for martial classes is to be able to resist/avoid certain things. It's a good way to explain why mages became flexible too.</p><p></p><p>5. If martial classes need to roll to hit for most things, then caster classes should also need to roll to hit for most things. Both should have exceptions. If casters have magic missiles and AoE auto hit, then martial classes should have similar abilities at similar scale with flavor that reinforces the differences between martial and casting classes. *2</p><p></p><p>*2 Some may note that this reads a bit like 4e, but my opinion is they went way too far with the concept as it felt like they treated everything like a spell like ability. Personally, I'd use casting schools and fighting styles or some derivative. I'm equally sure though that that's not an original concept. it's just all about how it's executed that counts.</p><p></p><p>Last, I agree that there needs to be a flexible initiative system or some mechanic that forces re-evaluation of the order of combat periodically through a fight. Ebb and Flow is part of a fight that needs to be simulated so "leet builds" aren't always effective. It'd go a long way towards protecting the system from power creep once the splats start coming out.</p><p></p><p>Two cents</p><p>KB</p><p></p><p>PS. Left out one point that should be noted and I'll add it to the DO's and DON'Ts relative to game balance.</p><p></p><p>Do allow players a full understanding of the magic that's available in your game and the rules that the GM will use to add more along the way so mages can do spell research.</p><p></p><p>Do allow martial classes the same option to create new fighting styles. </p><p></p><p>Don't allow martial classes to create the "All casters must die fighting style" Each must have its pros and cons when dealing with casters.</p><p></p><p>Don't allow players access to world bending magic without serious balance considerations.</p><p></p><p>Example: Wish as a spell. Good to know it exists. Bad to use it without good reason. Worse to give it to players as an available spell without serious consideration. If you treat magic like the resource it is to your campaign, you don't let caster power overtake the martial classes ability to compensate for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kobold Boots, post: 7736656, member: 92239"] Leaving the "lets bash Erik/my game is dying" stuff to those with reputation to burn and no care for human compassion or common sense.. I'll jump back into the caster balance argument from a game design perspective. If you want to balance casting it's not a discussion that's simply about creating new rules for casting or spells. In reality its a rework of the combat system and character options from the perspective of what would actually happen to combat and character options in a world where magic happens. 1. Do not make it harder to cast than it is to swing a sword in combat. 2. Do ensure that if casters have to prep spells ahead of time in exchange for their flexibility that you enforce that prep in game. 3. Do not nerf caster ability, if they have to prep ahead of time then they need to be cool when they cast their stuff. 4. Do provide martial classes with some sort of resistance to magic or magic combat training to counteract spells* * The above needs to be thought out more. I'm not saying magic resistance is a good idea I'm just saying that if mages can be super fiexible then the balancing point for martial classes is to be able to resist/avoid certain things. It's a good way to explain why mages became flexible too. 5. If martial classes need to roll to hit for most things, then caster classes should also need to roll to hit for most things. Both should have exceptions. If casters have magic missiles and AoE auto hit, then martial classes should have similar abilities at similar scale with flavor that reinforces the differences between martial and casting classes. *2 *2 Some may note that this reads a bit like 4e, but my opinion is they went way too far with the concept as it felt like they treated everything like a spell like ability. Personally, I'd use casting schools and fighting styles or some derivative. I'm equally sure though that that's not an original concept. it's just all about how it's executed that counts. Last, I agree that there needs to be a flexible initiative system or some mechanic that forces re-evaluation of the order of combat periodically through a fight. Ebb and Flow is part of a fight that needs to be simulated so "leet builds" aren't always effective. It'd go a long way towards protecting the system from power creep once the splats start coming out. Two cents KB PS. Left out one point that should be noted and I'll add it to the DO's and DON'Ts relative to game balance. Do allow players a full understanding of the magic that's available in your game and the rules that the GM will use to add more along the way so mages can do spell research. Do allow martial classes the same option to create new fighting styles. Don't allow martial classes to create the "All casters must die fighting style" Each must have its pros and cons when dealing with casters. Don't allow players access to world bending magic without serious balance considerations. Example: Wish as a spell. Good to know it exists. Bad to use it without good reason. Worse to give it to players as an available spell without serious consideration. If you treat magic like the resource it is to your campaign, you don't let caster power overtake the martial classes ability to compensate for it. [/QUOTE]
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