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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Staffan" data-source="post: 9709734" data-attributes="member: 907">The way I see it is that the problems of the 3e engine hadn't changed appreciably in the 10 or so years between the release of 4e and the release of PF2. It's no great surprise that the solutions to those problems would look fairly similar as well, even if they aren't identical.That said, I think there are some things from 4e that are missing in PF2:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attrition mechanic for medium-term healing (e.g. healing surges). Treat Wounds is a fairly dull mechanic because the only cost to using it is time, and at low levels (before you can take the skill feats that improve it) that time is very long (one-hour cooldown per target). And given how chonky PF2 monsters are, you don't want to go into combat at less than full hp.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Resource-using martial characters. PF2 has a fairly strict delineation between proper casters and martial characters, and has issues with classes that straddle the line (e.g. alchemists). There are some martials with focus spells (mainly monks and champions), but those are unquestionably still spells and not limited-use techniques. Martials almost exclusively use action economy as a balancing mechanic rather than resource use. I am slightly hopeful that with kineticists blurring the line in one direction (unlimited-use magic effects), they might eventually blur the line in the other (limited-use martial techniques).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rituals as the primary means of using non-combat magic. 4e relegated pretty much all non-combat (or at least non-immediate-use) magic to rituals, and made them theoretically usable by anyone with an investment in a single feat (and a variety of skills). So things like animal messenger, comprehend languages, or magic to remove various long-term conditions were all rituals instead of spells. That meant that they weren't limited by class (so you wouldn't go "We need a cleric to deal with poisons"), you didn't need to choose between having those and having combat powers available, and since rituals took a fair bit of time to use (10+ minutes), they wouldn't outcompete using skills to solve problems. PF2 has rituals, but they don't fill the same niche as 4e rituals.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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