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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 3668576" data-attributes="member: 23619">In regard to the OP; I think you should give everyone involved an XP award for their roleplaying and simply just move on. No consequences for the group (for making bargains with infernal beings) or for the paladin. Everyone expressed their reasons for their actions. Time to move on. If the others were upset about the paladin breaking their deal with the imp, that alone should be reason enough for the paladin to leave their company. Imps are known deal-makers (deal-breakers) and fiends/baatezu on top of that. They barter with souls and such and do so for all eternity. If anything, the other PCs should be grateful for the paladin 'removing' the imp from their deal--though they could find out consequences later on of having made a bargain with a devil.... As for the paladin's actions, Lawful Good is not the same as Lawful Stupid! Whether he was part of the deal or not, nothing was mentioned about saving or protecting their invisible partner, so upon finding out it was an imp (evil outsider), the paladin would have been remiss on so many levels to have let the imp continue with its plans. For one, he would have been leaving his companions at the mercy of devilish forces (the imp itself, or the imp's master), not to mention continued association or compliance with an evil being's plans would almost definitely result in the (possibly permanent) revocation of paladin status. I think the heart of this debate is the fact that it seems (by the OP's wording) that the paladin just up and killed the imp with no warning or reason given--which may appear to be murder (definitely not a lawful or good act). However, the paladin--by the nature of her status/class as a paladin--is appointed the authority to dispatch evil. It is not just her job, but her calling. If you don't want dead imps around, keep the paladins away! Paladins do not have to give warning or advance notice of their intention to smite. People seem to assume this in just about every paladin case where they get the first (and sometimes only) shot in. The fact that they are a paladin is warning enough for evil beings. The imp knew the risks in 'dealing' with a paladin or in dealing with others with a paladin around. Imps are not honorable opponents so the paladin was not violating any code of honor (outside the code of conduct required by his class) by not saluting and offering a "prepare to be smitten!". If you want to go strictly by the PHB, then:--"respect legitimate authority": The paladin would be disrespecting the authority of his deity/church/gov't by honoring a bargain with an evil outsider. And to a paladin, no authority could be more legitimate or higher than the one that provides their powers; as such, the paladin would not have the authority to enter into any bargain with an evil outsider.--"act with honor": There is no honor in continuing a bargain/association with a known evil outsider. Imps are legendary in their untrustworthiness and as such, the paladin had every right to conclude that the imp would have broken (not if) any agreement with their group at any moment that would have put it to greatest advantage or his friends at a time of harm or peril. --"help those in need": His friends just made a bargain with a devil. There is rarely a time of greater need than that to a paladin. Not having acted would have risked the corruption of the souls of his friends if not directly placing their lives in danger. It is still a possibility that the imp could have placed a telepathic Suggestion on one of the PCs to do something nefarious later on--such as dispatch one or more other PCs next time they are on watch at camp. --"punish those who do harm or threaten innocents": The imp (and any evil outsider) fits this category with absolute certainty.As for whether/why the paladin used or didn't use Detect Evil, well, there are all sorts of variables. The imp could have been behind a barrier thick enough for the paladin not to get a 'reading'. The imp could have moved out of range. There are all sorts of possibilities. As to why the paladin may not have used it, time could have been an issue. Not knowing where the invisible ally was means having to search and that would have wasted time they may otherwise not have had. Maybe the paladin was operating on the (naive) belief that a potential ally offering aid would not be evil. That is offering friendship and trust openly and in an honorable manner which should never be punished. Also, once the imp was revealed and the paladin recognized it for such, he shouldn't have to Detect Evil just to confirm. He was trained (or learned) to recognize such creatures, that alone would be enough confirmation. If it turned out to be a non-evil being, then the smite wouldn't have worked and the paladin could have turned around and used LoH or given them a healing potion or something. In that case, its more of a 'friendly fire' situation which means the paladin is not at fault. Should he feel remorse? Yes. Should he make amends? Maybe, it would be the honorable thing to do. But in a battle (war) there is rarely time for second-guessing or confirming things (detect evil) that have already been confirmed (recognized imp as an imp); and doing so places oneself and/or one's companions in danger.Nothing sets a paladin on the road to Blackguard (or feat-less Fighter) faster than slapping him down for being good (and trusting, honorable, etc). He'll learn on his own to be more circumspect in his actions. But since they were looking through a house guarded only by 'fighters and animals' and an imp was involved--I'm wagering it was a low-level game and so the paladin would be inexperienced (or not paranoid) enough to not think of automatically detecting evil on every being he encounters. Penalizing a player of a paladin for playing his character in good faith is wrong. That will lead the player into 'performance paralysis' where he will be hesitant to take even a seemingly simple action for fear that he may lose his powers for the day (or maybe forever). DMs can tell when paladin players are behaving incorrectly or abusing their powers. In those cases, punish or warn, yes. But if the player is behaving in good faith, leave it alone. Or even have him 'debriefed' at the end of the quest and during that have his senior (boss, etc.) bring up whatever point the DM wanted to bring up ("Try using Detect Evil in this situation next time. And by the way, great job on that Smite! Wish I could have seen that! Here's a few extra potions of healing for you guys!", etc.).</blockquote>

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