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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 3683392" data-attributes="member: 29014">I have no problem with absolute present-telling magic, since the present, by default, is static.&nbsp; As for the troll, it was only an analogy--feel free to add all possible other ways to kill the troll to that list and pretend that's what I said <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; As to the dinner date, Orcus specifically consumed the souls of the only beings who knew the pass phrases for the demiplanes.&nbsp; He did so preemptively and with great evil genius before anyone knew his plan because he considered the scenario where heroes try to smash one of the seven, and he knew that once the souls were consumed, not even a Miracle could produce the lost knowledge.&nbsp; But he himself relied too much on present-telling magic that he used wrong, so he missed Anyiel through arrogance--he asked: &quot;Name all entities that ever knew the pass phrase for this demiplane&quot; The spell gave him two names, one some arbitrary guy from whom he extracted the knowledge then consumed the soul, the other was &quot;The creator of the Demiplane, the angel Anyiel.&quot;&nbsp; So Orcus asked &quot;Where can I find the angel Anyiel.&quot; The response: &quot;The angel Anyiel is no more, so never shall she be found.&quot; (truthful, but fatally flawed).&nbsp; To me, that's a believable slip-up on Orcus's part.&nbsp; Leaving all the entities alive that knew the pass phrases but then guarding the demiplanes with minions that the heroes can beat just seems to me to be playing stupid and falling into the kinds of cliche stereotypical villain mistakes that are mentioned in the Evil Overlord list, which I try to avoid when playing beings of vast Intelligence.Because Orcus otherwise had his act together, there were no more beings left that knew the pass phrases to one of the seven demiplanes.&nbsp; The option to go down to the Abyss and kill Orcus existed, but it was doomed to certain failure--to fight Orcus in Thanatos is to challenge Thanatos itself.&nbsp; The Paladin could also let his world die and then at least kill Orcus on the material plane after Orcus arose from the Deathwell.&nbsp; So there were some other options, but they were pretty grim.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 3683392, member: 29014"] I have no problem with absolute present-telling magic, since the present, by default, is static. As for the troll, it was only an analogy--feel free to add all possible other ways to kill the troll to that list and pretend that's what I said ;) As to the dinner date, Orcus specifically consumed the souls of the only beings who knew the pass phrases for the demiplanes. He did so preemptively and with great evil genius before anyone knew his plan because he considered the scenario where heroes try to smash one of the seven, and he knew that once the souls were consumed, not even a Miracle could produce the lost knowledge. But he himself relied too much on present-telling magic that he used wrong, so he missed Anyiel through arrogance--he asked: "Name all entities that ever knew the pass phrase for this demiplane" The spell gave him two names, one some arbitrary guy from whom he extracted the knowledge then consumed the soul, the other was "The creator of the Demiplane, the angel Anyiel." So Orcus asked "Where can I find the angel Anyiel." The response: "The angel Anyiel is no more, so never shall she be found." (truthful, but fatally flawed). To me, that's a believable slip-up on Orcus's part. Leaving all the entities alive that knew the pass phrases but then guarding the demiplanes with minions that the heroes can beat just seems to me to be playing stupid and falling into the kinds of cliche stereotypical villain mistakes that are mentioned in the Evil Overlord list, which I try to avoid when playing beings of vast Intelligence. Because Orcus otherwise had his act together, there were no more beings left that knew the pass phrases to one of the seven demiplanes. The option to go down to the Abyss and kill Orcus existed, but it was doomed to certain failure--to fight Orcus in Thanatos is to challenge Thanatos itself. The Paladin could also let his world die and then at least kill Orcus on the material plane after Orcus arose from the Deathwell. So there were some other options, but they were pretty grim. [/QUOTE]

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