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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Derrick Reeves" data-source="post: 444754" data-attributes="member: 8427">To be honest, I think the cut-and-paste method has destroyed the class flavour of the Paladin.  YMMV.May I ask why, given your "generalist" stance on Paladin abilities, you have applied alignment restrictions on the character and their church?  Wouldn't it make more sense to apply such restrictions to the abilities themselves?I still think you should add Iron Will to this list.Again, if you're sticking with a generalist Paladin, the skills themselves should be customisable.  (I don't agree with your stance, but I'm happy to help you build a PrC that fulfills it.)To consider the FR pantheon, Paladins of Tyr (from your comments about Paladins and police, I'll choose this as my primary example) would probably suit this selection of skills fairly well.  Appraise, Forgery, Gather Information, Search and Spot would also be approriate, though.  A Paladin devoted to Ilmater, on the other hand, would have little use for Intimidate, though Animal Empathy would be cool.Fortitude saves should be better than this, though the Will save need not be so high.If you'd made the Paladin's advancement better, you wouldn't need to resort to this.This is junk.  All of it.  Firstly, syntax and rulespeak: "...can Turn Undead as a Cleric... may Turn Undead once per day" doesn't actually make any sense - a Cleric can Turn Undead 3 + Cha mod per day, so the Paladin can't "Turn Undead as a Cleric".  Extra Turning is confusing - it should work like the feat, or be removed.Secondly, these abilities are very weak for a non-Cleric Paladin, and there's no way to improve your Turning capabilities.  Lathander and Pelor should both grant impressive anti-Undead abilities... but can't, using your rules.Still, it doesn't matter, because:I don't suppose you expect anyone to take any abilities other than these at Pal1, do you?  If you do, you're dreaming - a +4 TH for 10 rounds (forever in most D&D combats) is amazing by comparison to the rest of your offerings, and the effective +5 bonus is superb as well.Hello Paladin special abilities #3, #4, #6, #7, #9...... and #5, #8, #11...This might find its way in somewhere along the line as well, though it's probably easier for the Paladin to just take enough Cleric levels to get Greater Magic Weapon.In summary: this PrC currently stinks.  Allowing the player to choose abilities at each level means that the balance amongst them has to be very carefully maintained - and it hasn't.I strongly recommend making individual advancement paths for Paladins of specific deities as examples, rather than relying on this (broken) system.  (Actually, I recommend using the Paladin in the PHB along with its fluff text, but that's beside the point.)For sake of comparison, here's a "vanilla" Paladin PrC, porting the old class concept with some slight modification to compensate for the delay in gaining the abilities and (apparently) unclear conceptualisation.I realise this version isn't for everyone.  However, there's really nothing in the description of a Paladin to indicate that they are any more pious than the next man - merely that they are pure of heart and blessed of the gods (or other powers of good) - if you're going to retain the name, and not add a new background, the least you could do is stick to the concept.</blockquote>

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