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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6686556" data-attributes="member: 92511">I would say, in the proposed hypothetical, that he should choose not to because she is tied up...says she didn't do it...and by this scenario have knowledge or proof of the contrary other than his divine sense. Until she does something/the paladin has proof of her wrong doing...he can't jsut kill her. For all they know, in this scenario, she was their captive/prisoner. If that is criteria, then no they can not reasonably refuse because the deal gets them "the greatest good for the greatest number" (though I would submit this leans toward Neutral Good and not the summation of a definition for "Lawful Good"). I'd suppose so...still not understanding the relevance here and wouldn't hold deities and mortals to same standards.True. Me neither.If she is bound, he can't...and if she is bound, theoretically, her evil has been conquered/squashed. She is no threat.Yes. Becaue he did not do what he should have done, hence the penalties should begin to commence.Whee! Agreement in paladin threads is a rare and beautiful thing. Makes me happy. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />The paladin should not, no...and should not be that pleased by those that do. At the same time, I see no reason to interfere with others from doing so. He may not like it, but this is a battle. The orc has been knocked out, presumably, out of self-defense in a combat situation. It didn't surrender. If you are in a world/campaign where orcs are not irretrievably evil/shades of grey/moral ambiguity, then I suppose binding them and offering a chance to surrender would be preferable. I don't think so. No. Again, depends on the campaign/deity/world. Mine wouldn't.I would say delivering of a "merciful end" instead of bleeding out is preferable. This goes to the definition of honor and deity's specialty/wishes also. A paladin of a war deity would probably not care if they bled out...or if they killed them while unconscious. A paladin of a "life" deity would/should probably be required to try to bind the wounds.Are we back to determining/proven that she was involved in the destruction of the town (which, it seems, she wasn't and the paladin didn't bother taking the time to find out)? I woudl say a Lawful EVIL paladin could easily do this...maybe a Lawful Neutral could too if they, as a part of their role as a paladin of their deity is judge and execution, then sure you could get away with this sentence of death by starvation (for something really awful). Lawful Good? No. You can't do that. Right. She can take death at the paladin's hand or be brought before the king's justice (or whoever the lawful authority of the realm they're in is). Those are your options.If we're talking about a Lawful GOOD paladin, you have to lawful AND good. You are not obligated to enforce or sit powerless in the face of law that promotes Evil. Slavery, depending on the campaign world/culture/game would almost certainly be viewed by a 21st century audience as something Evil that can be thwarted. In fact, I would submit that offering to buy someone's freedom from an evil slavemaster is precisely what they should do. The slavemaster can say no...and in that case, no, then you are not justified in murdering the slavemaster in a kingdom where slavery is the law. You may, out of passion...or "answering to a higher authority" or whatever...and the GOOD paladin's deity probably wouldn't care. The LN or LE deity might be a bit peeved."We" who? My games are all "heroic." You are not playing villains. You are not playing "anti-heroes" [HATE those]. You can have plenty of moral ambiguity and in depth character development in a "Heroic" game. You are still playing the good guys.I don't see how this is conclusion. I would say you can easily play a paladin in a "shades of greey" game. YOu just happen be the "White" among the shades of grey.Probably not. But I refute your premise and seriously doubt those were the only two options.  Certainly not. As I said, those aren't the only two options. And I'm not suggesting "losing his paladinhood" I'm suggesting penalties should begin to accrue. Things should start to "feel funny". You know what you did wasn't "right." You feel remorse. You want your soul cleansed to make you worthy of your deity's grace again...and that, likely, becomes an evermore consuming desire and need until you attain your atonement...or, ultimately, fall.Murdering an old woman in the street because she stepped in front of you? Lose paladinhood.Make some mistakes/the lesser of two evils/the "only" option, things start to slip...more or less,faster or slower, depending on how bad/far from your principles they were.Because this thread is about paladins.Who said it isn't?...for any alignment.Agreed. Absolutely.Any character of any alignment that displays severe or consistent behavior at odds with the alignment on their character sheet is always subject to alignment changes. Paladins and LG Clerics may have it the most strict, yes. That is the virtues of being LG. But clerics of any alignment, shifting too far from their deity's/religion's alignment can easily find their prayers going unanswered. Heck I still demand my druids be Neutral. Too much deviation and they too, fall "out of balance" and begin to find it difficult using their magic/powers. So, in modern day parlance, "divine casters" need to be the most careful. But more than one "Neutral" thief or "Good" fighter who got a bit too zealous or blood thirsty or greedy in their tomb-raiding has found themselves beginning to shift toward the dark side. Agreed on the consensus needing to be reached. I wouldn't retcon anything (I really hate to do that), but let the player know they dodged bullet...maybe th epaladin gets a "tsk tsk" vision/warning dream from an agent of their deity. Give them a set of guidelines, principles, or formal "rules" or code even if you want...and stick by it. But, as I said, in my game, they'd be having some trouble with their powers by now.</blockquote>

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