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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4080425" data-attributes="member: 18">Nonsense. The fighter had more hit-points because he was up at the front and more likely to get hit. He didn't use to have special magical "stay and play with me!" powers before. That's WHY he has the HP, because he's a melee fighter who job is to get in there and mix it up, which is clearly NOT the same as one who magically sticks mobs to himself.The difference is very simple:1) 3.XE or earlier Fighter - Is in a dangerous position, but tries not to get hit. Does not encourage people to hit him by any means beyond proximity.2) 4E Defender - Actively tries to encourage people to try* to hit him. Includes quasi-magical powers to do so (I could understand the Fighter ability if it only worked on enemies adjacent to him, but when it works on a Gelatinous Cube in a silence field in another room? Dumb).I'll say one thing though. The Fighter's bizarre and illogical "-2 to hit everyone who isn't me" is a lot less OP than the Paladin's "8 damage any time you attack anyone who isn't me!", which is so abusable it's just silly (and amaaaaaaaaaazing that it got through playtesting, makes you wonder about some of the other stuff we're going to see).What you should realize too, is that it's not only "hardened gamers" who pick up on these differences. The most casual player in my D&D group, who is very casual indeed accused my Bo9S Crusader character of being "some kind of wierd martyr" when I used Iron Guard's Glare, which is basically the same thing as the Fighter ability. It's not logical, it's not normal, it doesn't make intuitive sense, and I'll go as far as to say these sort of abilities are dumb. Designing the game to rely on them is also therefore dumb.* = At least this isn't QUITE as bad as some MMORPGs (like WoW), where you are RELIANT on actually TAKING damage to do stuff and ineffective if you're successfully defending yourself. I don't see any Defender abilities based around that yet. I sincerely pray that there are none. It's an idiot concept, particularly for non-magical types. It's one thing to go from soldier to rodeo clown. It's another to be a rodeo clown who can only clown if he gets gored.</blockquote>

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