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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 7820281" data-attributes="member: 53980">I wasn't advocating for him insomuch as pointing out that in the scenario as presented he wins either way. Admittedly, I designed the scenario, but it was simply to illustrate a point.Well, just because the player is aware of a character's potential, doesn't mean that the character is. I wasn't giving PCs carte blanche, but rather pointing out that a bit of restraint in the present can result in a greater good in the long term.Just as the ends don't necessarily justify the means, I would also say that the means don't necessarily justify the ends. In other words, if you do a good thing that knowingly results in greater evil, you haven't actually done a good thing. Punching Asmodeus in the nose may make the paladin feel good for a brief moment, and arguably Asmodeus deserves that punch and a whole lot worse, but it ultimately results in three souls being tormented for eternity, rather than one. Hence, even though the act itself could be argued as a good one (defying evil), the greater evil that results indicates to me that it was not a good act. Perhaps it could be justified if Asmodeus had not spelled out the consequences, but as he did, the paladin knowingly commits an evil act by punching Asmodeus, IMO.I believe I know the text you're referring to, and I'm quite familiar with it, so if you give me a hint I can probably figure it out. If it's easier to give chapter and verse, I have the NAB Revised Edition.That said, I want to respect the rules of the forum, so I don't think we could directly discuss the implications of such a passage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 7820281, member: 53980"] I wasn't advocating for him insomuch as pointing out that in the scenario as presented he wins either way. Admittedly, I designed the scenario, but it was simply to illustrate a point. Well, just because the player is aware of a character's potential, doesn't mean that the character is. I wasn't giving PCs carte blanche, but rather pointing out that a bit of restraint in the present can result in a greater good in the long term. Just as the ends don't necessarily justify the means, I would also say that the means don't necessarily justify the ends. In other words, if you do a good thing that knowingly results in greater evil, you haven't actually done a good thing. Punching Asmodeus in the nose may make the paladin feel good for a brief moment, and arguably Asmodeus deserves that punch and a whole lot worse, but it ultimately results in three souls being tormented for eternity, rather than one. Hence, even though the act itself could be argued as a good one (defying evil), the greater evil that results indicates to me that it was not a good act. Perhaps it could be justified if Asmodeus had not spelled out the consequences, but as he did, the paladin knowingly commits an evil act by punching Asmodeus, IMO. I believe I know the text you're referring to, and I'm quite familiar with it, so if you give me a hint I can probably figure it out. If it's easier to give chapter and verse, I have the NAB Revised Edition. That said, I want to respect the rules of the forum, so I don't think we could directly discuss the implications of such a passage. [/QUOTE]

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