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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7821249" data-attributes="member: 22779">Y'know, I think this grenade example has legs, so, I'm going to run with it for a bit.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />So, here's the situation - 1 paladin and 7 soldiers are standing in a circle. Scenario 1 - Paladin yells, &quot;Grenade&quot; and jumps on the grenade.&nbsp; The other 7 are saved.&nbsp; Paladin dies heroically.Scenario 2 - Paladin yells, &quot;Get down!&quot; and everyone drops flat.&nbsp; Grenade explodes and no one is harmed.&nbsp; Did the paladin violate his oath?Scenario 3 - Paladin yells, &quot;Get down!&quot; and everyone except for Bloggins, who's always a bit slow, gets down while Bloggins dies.&nbsp; Did the paladin violate his oath?Scenario 4 - Paladin yells, &quot;Grenade&quot; and jumps on the grenade.&nbsp; The other 7 drop to the ground as they have been trained to do and the paladin knows that they should, and would not have died regardless of what the paladin did.&nbsp; Is the paladin still a hero? It's all very well and good to talk about this or that philosophical point, but, at some point, we can't really know.&nbsp; Like [USER=3424]@FireLance[/USER] so rightly points out, a far better question is &quot;how willingly did he break the oath and what happens next?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7821249, member: 22779"] Y'know, I think this grenade example has legs, so, I'm going to run with it for a bit. :D So, here's the situation - 1 paladin and 7 soldiers are standing in a circle. Scenario 1 - Paladin yells, "Grenade" and jumps on the grenade. The other 7 are saved. Paladin dies heroically. Scenario 2 - Paladin yells, "Get down!" and everyone drops flat. Grenade explodes and no one is harmed. Did the paladin violate his oath? Scenario 3 - Paladin yells, "Get down!" and everyone except for Bloggins, who's always a bit slow, gets down while Bloggins dies. Did the paladin violate his oath? Scenario 4 - Paladin yells, "Grenade" and jumps on the grenade. The other 7 drop to the ground as they have been trained to do and the paladin knows that they should, and would not have died regardless of what the paladin did. Is the paladin still a hero? It's all very well and good to talk about this or that philosophical point, but, at some point, we can't really know. Like [USER=3424]@FireLance[/USER] so rightly points out, a far better question is "how willingly did he break the oath and what happens next?" [/QUOTE]

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