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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 6197372" data-attributes="member: 23484">With the expectation that there will be an Avenger option  for Paladins, and the continued speculation that there should be a Blackguard oath, as well, I am surprised to discover how little the Paths convey to the character:a. an expanded spell list b. two channel divinity optionsc. a class power at level 8d. class powers at levels 18 and 20.In terms of interest for individuation, a. and d. can be eliminated:a. the spell list will only be used selectively anyways (if at all)d. most of the time players won't see level 18 and 20 abilities. That leaves channel divinity and a single class power. My sense is that's not enough. We can also note that for the Oath of Devotion, these are overwhelmingly directed at turning undead and fighting fiends, and so will go unused in many adventures. That leaves Sacred weapon.Conclusion: while the Paladin is overall pretty appealing to play, very little of that appeal (for me at least) comes from the Oath.Now let's flip it over: what class abilities of the Paladin might naturally fit better as an oath power than a general class power?e. Aura of Protection (level 6, nearby allies get a saving throw bonus based on the paladin's charisma)f. Aura of Courage (level 10, nearby allies can't be frightened).For me, level 6 and 10 class powers are not abilities that fit the idea of an Avenger or a Blackguard, and should be limited to the "paragons of justice" who take the Oath of Devotion.  Aura of Protection is one of the reasons I like to play a Paladin, but it seems to me to be a feature better suited to a specific Oath, rather than all holy warriors. Suggestion: It seems to me that both of these issues are solved by moving the level 6 and 10 class powers to the oath. The choice of Oath therefore represents a significant means of individuating one paladin from another, with distinctive abilities at levels 6, 8, and 10 (as well as 18 and 20). It means the avenger won't have an ally-protecting aura, and the blackguard won't be reassuring allies in the face of danger, and that makes sense. But it also helps keep the idea of the oath robust. Note that the current playtest Paladins would be completely unaffected by this change: it is simply a matter of opening up some design space for future possibilities. It also means that the Oath of Devotion isn't quite so single-minded in its benefits, and no longer focuses on undead and fiends to the exclusion of, well, demonstrating devotion.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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