Paladin: Remove Disease

[milo]

I am looking for suggestions on what I could possibly replace the Palain's Remove Disease ability with. I am looking for something that is not gamebreaking, but gives him a little more combat power. I know that the ability is more of a game flavor thing, but I am not a big fan of it and I would like to see more people play a Paladin.
Paladins seem like the least customizable class I have seen. Almost all builds are identical other that the exact stats. I have already thought about replacing it with a 3rd level cleric spell of player's choice with the same number of uses. Any other suggestions?

 

[Thondor]

1. Well one option that immediately springs to mind is shifting things around so that you get more Smite evils. A max of 10smites would be so much cooler then 5.

2. Another less combat orientated one is to allow the once per week spell to be from a short list of similarly themed spells. Any of:
Restoration (level4)
Neutralize Poision(level4)
Remove curse (level3)
remove Disease(level3)
Remove Blindness/deafness (level3)

I'm seriously considering adopting this one, as you mentioned the remove disease ability is really more of a flavour thing. Not really what you were looking for though.

3. A third option is allowing some sort of protective spell.
Protection From evil fits wonderfully with the paladins and could be used per/day instead of week at the same rate as the remove disease.
Entropic shield also sortof fits although not for all paladins. Could have both available.

 

[milo]

Thanks I like these ideas, one of the spells I looked at was mass resist energy. I think that would fit well, I also like the spell list idea. It makes it more useful. Keep up the good ideas.

 

[green slime]

IMC I changed the Remove disease special ability to:

Remove Affliction (Sp): At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove affliction effect, which functions as one of the following spells, once per week: Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Lesser Restoration, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Fear, Remove Paralysis. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

 

[FireLance]

In my view, the main problem with the paladin's remove disease is that it refreshes on a weekly basis, and disease isn't a very common affliction in the first place, so it gets used only rarely. Even when it does get used, it doesn't seem very impactful.

If you want to retain the flavor of an ability that shouldn't be used very often (since it only refreshes on a weekly instead of a daily basis), I think the player ought to be really glad he has it when the occasion to use it arises. Some possible ideas are:

1. If the character is brought to -1 hp or below, he may act as if he had the Diehard feat for 1 round per point of Charisma bonus. If the character already has the Diehard feat, he may act as if he is not disabled, but he still takes 1 hp of damage if he performs any strenuous activity.

2. If the character is brought to -10 hp or below, he does not actually die for 1 round per point of Charisma bonus. During this time, if the character receives healing that brings him to 1 or more hit points, he becomes fully functional again.

3. If the character is brought to -1 hp or below, his ability to lay on hands automatically activates. However, the character is treated as if he was dazed for one round, even if he normally cannot be dazed (this effectively causes him to lose out on one round of actions).

4. The character may immediately re-roll a failed saving throw.

 

[milo]

I like your suggestions Firelance. That is some good stuff. Might use that. The Remove Affliction is something that we were already discussing, but it has a name. Any more suggestions? I will probably take my favorite ones and let my pc's choose. Make different packages for the Paladin.

 

[Li Shenron]

Although it has never been used yet in my games, I let players of UA Paladin variants swap Remove Disease for another Cleric spell of the same level or less, as long as it fits thematically with their patron deity (if any) or with their alignment. I think it's best to favor spells that protect/help your party members, rather than offensive spells. I guess it could be a generalized option for ANY paladin.

For instance, in a FR game you could have for example these as options:

Paladin of Tyr: Zone of truth
Paladin of Kelemvor: Negative energy protection
Paladin of Ilmater: Cure serious wounds
Paladin of Mystra: Dispel magic
Paladin of Sune: Calm emotions
Paladin of Chauntea: Create food and water

Otherwise you can default to the generic Magic circle against evil or Prayer.

 

[milo]

Would it be balanced to either give them a domain or full turning ability in place of remove disease

 

[Kunimatyu]

Would it be balanced to either give them a domain or full turning ability in place of remove disease

You could probably get away with giving them a domain granted power appropriate to their deity.

 

[el-remmen]

Although it has never been used yet in my games, I let players of UA Paladin variants swap Remove Disease for another Cleric spell of the same level or less, as long as it fits thematically with their patron deity (if any) or with their alignment. I think it's best to favor spells that protect/help your party members, rather than offensive spells. I guess it could be a generalized option for ANY paladin.

For instance, in a FR game you could have for example these as options:

Paladin of Tyr: Zone of truth
Paladin of Kelemvor: Negative energy protection
Paladin of Ilmater: Cure serious wounds
Paladin of Mystra: Dispel magic
Paladin of Sune: Calm emotions
Paladin of Chauntea: Create food and water

Otherwise you can default to the generic Magic circle against evil or Prayer.

I do something similar in my Aquerra campaigns, where the deity they worship determines that ability. For example Paladins of Anubis get the divine feat "Divine Vengeance" from Defenders of the Faith instead of it - and gain an extra turn attempt per day for each additional remove disease per week they would have gotten.