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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ridley's Cohort" data-source="post: 912970" data-attributes="member: 545">LokiDR,That is a good start, but those are the stats for a generic healing cleric, not a cleric optimized for melee.  You also forgot that the cleric will have domain powers.  Asking a cleric to fight without domain powers is like asking a paladin to fight without a horse.Alhandra's wand is an artificial advantage.  Jozan is allowed to have a wand, too.If Jozan is going to fight like a dumb grunt, we should design him for the role:16 Str (+1 @ 4th)14 Con13 Wis (will increase this @ 8th)12 Dex10 Int8 ChaThis cleric intends to chop up undead, not turn them.  Now he has AC 23.  Give him War and Destruction Domains.  That gives him Weapon Focus and a smite.  (Death and Animal domains would be much nastier.)I think we should take magical equipment out of the equation.  Unless you are talking about a Holy Sword, there are no items that give a big edge to the paladin, while there are a few that really help the cleric.BTW, 5th/6th level is the optimal point on the power curve for a paladin to beat a cleric.  If the paladin can't win hands down there, he never will.  Also, if we are going to put the paladin on a horse, the cleric gets one, too -- though it will help the cleric less.</blockquote>