Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Elphilm" data-source="post: 3793693" data-attributes="member: 55130">Thanks for the comments!Before I go into the details I should clarify that giving the crusader a good Reflex save was a fluke; the first saving throw column should read Fort, not Ref! Also, the table was meant to be far from finished, only showing the first step in modifying the paladin by including the bard spells per day progression. This is why the class has access to 0-level spells even though the paladin spell list doesn't have any.Simply cutting down the cleric spell list is of course a possibility, but I would like the crusader to have either full BAB or d10 Hit Die - the class should be fairly good at melee without overt reliance on buffing spells. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of all spells that increase one's ability scores. No class would have access to bear's endurance, bull's strength and the like.Arkhandus's suggestions are actually similar to what I was thinking of doing. I too want the class to have a rather significant Multiple Ability Dependancy to offset its power. However, I'm not entirely sure about giving the class access to 3rd-level spells - I wonder if keeping the d10 Hit Die would be enough to compensate for the lack of them.Quartz's feat suggestions are something I thought of doing as well. The class should indeed have a code of behavior (albeit not as strict as a paladin's), and the violation of that code should lead to the loss of all supernatural class abilities.Here is the table I came up with yesterday before I read your comments:Table 1: The CrusaderHit Die: d10[code]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Base&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Attack&nbsp; Fort&nbsp; Ref&nbsp;&nbsp; Will&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Spells per DayLevel&nbsp; Bonus&nbsp;&nbsp; Save&nbsp; Save&nbsp; Save&nbsp;&nbsp; Abilities&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; 1st&nbsp;&nbsp; 2nd-------------------------------------------------------------------1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Lay on hands&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Divine grace&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Aura of courage&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Endurance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Divine health&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; Smite 1/day&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2[/code]I replaced smite evil with a general smite ability that works like the granted power of the cleric's Destruction domain. The crusader should, after all, be a class for all alignments. I also added in the Endurance feat; in my mind an experienced crusader if anyone should be used to sleeping in armor, and should generally be in peak physical condition. Endurance also ties in nicely with the divine health granted at 5th level - a miracle of faith if there ever was one.However, I'm rather fond of Sean K Reynolds's &quot;Fewer Absolutes&quot; articles, and I'm tempted to change divine health to a +10 bonus to saving throws against diseases (including supernatural and magical diseases). Pursuant to this, the aura of courage ability should grant a +10 bonus to saving throws against fear effects, and a +4 morale bonus to each ally within 10 feet of the crusader.Below is the (preliminary) crusader spell list. Some of the spells are non-core, so you might not be familiar with all of them. Suffice to say that there are very few attack spells on the list (fell the greatest foe is perhaps the most noticeable). Ability score buffs are also noticeably absent as per my own suggestion above. The class doesn't have access to Restoration, but the E6 rules include a Restoration feat a cleric can take at 6th level. It allows the cleric to perform Restoration once per day with a casting time of one hour. I don't see any problem with giving the crusader access to the feat, provided that he meets the prerequisites for it.Crusader Spell List0-Level: Clarity, Detect Disease, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Discern Aura, Guidance, Mending, Multiply Water, Preservation, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue1st-Level: Align Weapon, Bless, Bless Water, Burial Blessing, Calm Emotions, Command, Comprehend Languages, Create Water, Cure Light Wounds, Curse Water, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Divine Favor, Divine Sacrifice, Endure Elements, Exorcism, Light, Lionheart, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Remove Fear, Resurgence, Second Wind, Shield of Faith2nd-Level: Augury, Aura of Glory, Create Food and Water, Cure Moderate Wounds, Daylight, Delay Poison, Dispel Magic, Divine Protection, Fell the Greatest Foe, Invisibility Purge, Knight's Move, Lesser Restoration, Prayer, Refreshment, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Shield Other, ZealWhat do you think of the class so far? Do you think that giving the crusader full BAB, d10 Hit Die, and access to 2nd-level spells is too much? Moreover, do you think that the class could actually be an able party healer and a part-time frontline combatant? That is in a nutshell what I'm going for.Again, thanks for the comments so far!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elphilm, post: 3793693, member: 55130"] Thanks for the comments! Before I go into the details I should clarify that giving the crusader a good Reflex save was a fluke; the first saving throw column should read Fort, not Ref! Also, the table was meant to be far from finished, only showing the first step in modifying the paladin by including the bard spells per day progression. This is why the class has access to 0-level spells even though the paladin spell list doesn't have any. Simply cutting down the cleric spell list is of course a possibility, but I would like the crusader to have either full BAB or d10 Hit Die - the class should be fairly good at melee without overt reliance on buffing spells. In fact, I'm toying with the idea of getting rid of all spells that increase one's ability scores. No class would have access to [i]bear's endurance, bull's strength[/i] and the like. Arkhandus's suggestions are actually similar to what I was thinking of doing. I too want the class to have a rather significant Multiple Ability Dependancy to offset its power. However, I'm not entirely sure about giving the class access to 3rd-level spells - I wonder if keeping the d10 Hit Die would be enough to compensate for the lack of them. Quartz's feat suggestions are something I thought of doing as well. The class should indeed have a code of behavior (albeit not as strict as a paladin's), and the violation of that code should lead to the loss of all supernatural class abilities. Here is the table I came up with yesterday before I read your comments: [B]Table 1: The Crusader[/B] [B]Hit Die: d10[/B] [code] Base Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day Level Bonus Save Save Save Abilities 0 1st 2nd ------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Lay on hands 2 - - 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Divine grace 3 0 - 3 +3 +3 +1 +1 Aura of courage 3 1 - 4 +4 +4 +1 +1 Endurance 3 2 0 5 +5 +4 +1 +1 Divine health 3 3 1 6 +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Smite 1/day 3 3 2[/code] I replaced smite evil with a general smite ability that works like the granted power of the cleric's Destruction domain. The crusader should, after all, be a class for all alignments. I also added in the Endurance feat; in my mind an experienced crusader if anyone should be used to sleeping in armor, and should generally be in peak physical condition. Endurance also ties in nicely with the divine health granted at 5th level - a miracle of faith if there ever was one. However, I'm rather fond of Sean K Reynolds's "Fewer Absolutes" articles, and I'm tempted to change divine health to a +10 bonus to saving throws against diseases (including supernatural and magical diseases). Pursuant to this, the aura of courage ability should grant a +10 bonus to saving throws against fear effects, and a +4 morale bonus to each ally within 10 feet of the crusader. Below is the (preliminary) crusader spell list. Some of the spells are non-core, so you might not be familiar with all of them. Suffice to say that there are very few attack spells on the list ([i]fell the greatest foe[/i] is perhaps the most noticeable). Ability score buffs are also noticeably absent as per my own suggestion above. The class doesn't have access to Restoration, but the E6 rules include a Restoration feat a cleric can take at 6th level. It allows the cleric to perform Restoration once per day with a casting time of one hour. I don't see any problem with giving the crusader access to the feat, provided that he meets the prerequisites for it. [U]Crusader Spell List[/U] [B]0-Level:[/B] Clarity, Detect Disease, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Discern Aura, Guidance, Mending, Multiply Water, Preservation, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue [B]1st-Level:[/B] Align Weapon, Bless, Bless Water, Burial Blessing, Calm Emotions, Command, Comprehend Languages, Create Water, Cure Light Wounds, Curse Water, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Divine Favor, Divine Sacrifice, Endure Elements, Exorcism, Light, Lionheart, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Remove Fear, Resurgence, Second Wind, Shield of Faith [B]2nd-Level:[/B] Augury, Aura of Glory, Create Food and Water, Cure Moderate Wounds, Daylight, Delay Poison, Dispel Magic, Divine Protection, Fell the Greatest Foe, Invisibility Purge, Knight's Move, Lesser Restoration, Prayer, Refreshment, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy, Shield Other, Zeal What do you think of the class so far? Do you think that giving the crusader full BAB, d10 Hit Die, and access to 2nd-level spells is too much? Moreover, do you think that the class could actually be an able party healer and a part-time frontline combatant? That is in a nutshell what I'm going for. Again, thanks for the comments so far! [/QUOTE]

Verification