Paladins and Dragon Mounts

reichtfeld

First Post
Defenders of the Faith presents rules for paladins to acquire special mounts, including dragons. As I read it, a paladin of sufficient leadership skill can attract a dragon as a cohort and, under appropriate circumstances, bind the dragon as a special mount with all the listed abilities from the PHB, p43.

When a paladin selects a dragon as a special mount, do the bonus hit dice have any affect on the dragon? Does the dragon gain size, age category, increased save for breath weapon, spellcasting levels, skills, feats, etc.? Page 43 of the PHB reads: "Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the mount's base attack and base save bonuses." How does this translate to a creature's other abilities as calculated from hit dice, specifically in the case of dragons? If I'm correct, the natural armor bonus is simply stacked onto the dragon's existing natural armor as is the case for familiars (which, for high-level paladins makes a very tough dragon mount).

Furthermore, p43 of the PHB reiterates that bonus HD are d8s. I don't believe this is changed in any later printing and I am also guessing that this is made with the assumption of using a horse or pony. With dragons and special mounts with different HD do these bonus HD remain a d8? Does the Command ability for special mounts change at all in the case of intelligent mounts such as dragons? I understand that you simply use the higher value in the case of improved intelligence and SR.

I'm very curious about all of this, because I am interested in playing a paladin in an epic-level campaign and, naturally, intrigued with the concept of a silver dragon mount. So far the bonus HD for special mounts remains a stumbling block if I plan to go that route, though. If the PHB did not reiterate that they raise BAB and saves then I would just assume that they are extra HP to give a special mount more survivability, but because of that statement it raises some questions in the case of dragons, with all of their HD-calculated abilities and attacks.

I would appreciate any feedback on this.
 

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reichtfeld said:
Defenders of the Faith presents rules for paladins to acquire special mounts, including dragons. As I read it, a paladin of sufficient leadership skill can attract a dragon as a cohort and, under appropriate circumstances, bind the dragon as a special mount with all the listed abilities from the PHB, p43.


Right. May I add that the splatbooks are broken. :D

When a paladin selects a dragon as a special mount, do the bonus hit dice have any affect on the dragon? Does the dragon gain size, age category, increased save for breath weapon, spellcasting levels, skills, feats, etc.? Page 43 of the PHB reads: "Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the mount's base attack and base save bonuses." How does this translate to a creature's other abilities as calculated from hit dice, specifically in the case of dragons? If I'm correct, the natural armor bonus is simply stacked onto the dragon's existing natural armor as is the case for familiars (which, for high-level paladins makes a very tough dragon mount).


A paladins mount is not an animal but Magical Beast. This assumes that normal mounts are animals though, which in your case becomes invalid. As for the stacking bonuses... Sadly I don't have the DoF here, but I wouldn't grant any. Improved evasion and all that other stuff would be too crazy with a dragon.

Furthermore, p43 of the PHB reiterates that bonus HD are d8s. I don't believe this is changed in any later printing and I am also guessing that this is made with the assumption of using a horse or pony. With dragons and special mounts with different HD do these bonus HD remain a d8? Does the Command ability for special mounts change at all in the case of intelligent mounts such as dragons? I understand that you simply use the higher value in the case of improved intelligence and SR.

Just forget that spell against dragons, ok? Hitpoints, BAB and saves should be changed according to the rules in the beginning of the MM with d12 for dragons and fighter BAB.

I'm very curious about all of this, because I am interested in playing a paladin in an epic-level campaign and, naturally, intrigued with the concept of a silver dragon mount. So far the bonus HD for special mounts remains a stumbling block if I plan to go that route, though. If the PHB did not reiterate that they raise BAB and saves then I would just assume that they are extra HP to give a special mount more survivability, but because of that statement it raises some questions in the case of dragons, with all of their HD-calculated abilities and attacks.

I would appreciate any feedback on this.

IMHO: Just forget the special mount abilities and raise the HD. This will make the dragon powerful enough.
 

Re: Re: Paladins and Dragon Mounts

Darklone said:


A paladins mount is not an animal but Magical Beast. This assumes that normal mounts are animals though, which in your case becomes invalid. As for the stacking bonuses... Sadly I don't have the DoF here, but I wouldn't grant any. Improved evasion and all that other stuff would be too crazy with a dragon.


Wrong, Darklone. A dragon is a dragon, not an magical beast. And the dragon gains all the abilities an special mount would get, only at a different rate (DotF pg. 14, Table 1-3)


Just forget that spell against dragons, ok? Hit points, BAB and saves should be changed according to the rules in the beginning of the MM with d12 for dragons and fighter BAB.
IMHO: Just forget the special mount abilities and raise the HD. This will make the dragon powerful enough.


No, The HDs gained by the special mount progression are like class HDs. They don´t advance the special mount, the mount doesn´t get larger and dragons don´t advance in age categories by gaining special mount HDs. (Which are additional d8 not d12 for dragons, because they are no "dragon HDs")

[edit]: I have reread the special mount entry in the PHB. Ok, this bonus HDs are supposed to advance the mount, but I think with all the special mounts the "class HD" approach is better.
 
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