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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SHARK" data-source="post: 446600" data-attributes="member: 1131">Greetings!Hey there Celebrim!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Ummm...not really "arguing" with you at all, Celebrim!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I was mainly talking specifically with Dragonblade, as he made similar comments. I liked your post by the way.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As far as a rebuttal of your recent post, well, I used some hyperbole, for dramatic effect, but I just don't see paladins being "pacifists". It seems like an oxymoron to me, really. Paladins exist to fight against the forces of Darkness, both physically and spiritually. As for paladins in general, or *mine* in specific, well, relishing bloodshed? I don't think that would be accurate. Do they relish crushing evil from the world? Well, yes. It is a world that is swallowed by demons, vampires, beastmen, and monsters after all. Why would righteous holy warriors, annointed and charged with defending the empire and defending their righteous faith not relish such a glorious crusade? They are raised from youth to believe in and trust the glorious empire, and when they enter the walls of the monastery to train as paladins, and as they are annointed in their holy calling as paladins, they armour themselves in the faith, and in the righteous zeal needed to carry on the great war against the forces of Darkness. Those who do not have the strength, the zeal, the courage, and the faith, shall fall on the battlefield, or they shall fall to the temptation of the enemy by use of magic, guile, or seduced by some heretical philosophy that poisons the mind of clarity and robs the spirit of faith. Naturally, paladins in other campaigns may not have such attitudes, but they do so in mine, as that seems consistent with their calling as holy warriors.Is not that what paladins are to do, is be *Holy Champions* fighting against the forces of Darkness? For example, in the Player's Handbook, it says that "Alhandra the Paladin, fights against the forces of evil without mercy!" I would think that type of instruction is inspirational in how paladins may think in terms of the game and their opponents, wouldn't you agree?As for the various arguments, no, I don't believe you have argued such, but Dragonblade and I have certainly seen where others have done so. It seems to be a popular philosophy to saddle paladins with, and I don't personally see how such can fit. I suppose that gets to the fundamantal philosophical assumption, though.My paladins are committed to lawful good philosophy, to their righteous and holy gods, to preserving and protecting their glorious empire, and to defeating the forces of Darkness.As for the "ends justifies the means"--well, no, not all or any means, but I would disagree that some means are not otherwise acceptable, as I noted earlier in some of my examples, like attacking enemies that are sleeping, or attacking enemies that are ambushed. I don't find those in the larger context of the necessities of fighting a war being inappropriate for paladins. Does that mean I think that *any* means is acceptable? Again, my friend, no. I just don't see the neat little rules of tournaments--which largely inform the codes of chivalry that many paladins embrace--as being effective or even worthy of a paladin involved in fighting a war against not another chivalrous knight at the end of the lists, but the forces of Darkness, which require a very different mind set, tactics, and philosophy.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Does that make sense?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Semper Fidelis,SHARK</blockquote>

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