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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaleon Moonshae" data-source="post: 946489" data-attributes="member: 12147">a few notesOK, first off, I have gone back and forth about making the paladin a PrC and losing the restrictions both equally. The problem I think a lot of people have with Paladins is the fact that most people just flat out don't play them right. It takes a certain sense of maturity, objectivity and compassion to play a paladin. I see people talk on here about holy warrior this and holy warrior that and kill this evil thing and kill that evil thing. We are forgetting I think one very important role of the paladin in fantasy and history... conversion. The paladin was almost always willing to give quarter and allow recension (spelling?) for past crimes. Lawful-good deity does not mean 'kill everything without trying to redeem it deity.' We talk about it being ok to kill so and so because we are 'champions of law' and they are evil. This seems a tad immature to me. The paladin is not a killing machine, he is the ideal man for others to look up to.Now, for the reason I went off on this tangeant. I support the idea of a psudo-PrC paladin because I want me players to 'prove' to me that they can live up to the ideals of the paladin instead of just choosing it and going around 'smiting evil' I like the idea of having the player play *any* other class for a level or two and then taking a feat at third level to become a paladin. I am sorry, even looking at historical concepts like Gawain, Percival, Joan and Charlemainge (four of the founding ideas of the paladin) they were more than just first level characters when they began *evidensing* devine powers. Be it fighter (Gawain and Percival were both squires, you didn't get to be a knight of the round without being a knight...and knight had prerequisits, go back and look at the characters again... purity and innocence in these cases usually meant *virginity* and *devotion* not lack of experience), be it rogue (Joan, who was *very* good with words and influencing people long before she took up the sword) or fighter (Charle. was trained from birth to fight, yes he was called at an early age, but his 'wonderous abilities on the battlefield' did not come to happen until well into his career as a fighter). Also, young by our way of thinking isn't young for their's... 12 years old is young to us, but it was not unheard of for a 12 year old to be a soldier in the army in medieval times, rare maybe, but not unheard of because they had to grow up *fast* in the old world.--------Now, because no one else had done it, here is the list of many bard concepts:1. musician2. performance artist3. poet4. scribe5. politician6. negotiator7. face8. spy9. illusionist10. pickpocket11. con-artist12. skald14. banner carrier for the military15. fop16. rake17. swashbuckler18. highwayman19. teacher20. sensei21. wisewoman22. king's hound23. policeman24. reveler25. fireworks performer26. private investigator27. seeker of lost lore28. magic item chronicler29. spin-doctor30. tombraider31. librarian..... and i can go on. The bard is *the* jack-of-all-trades and so can be almost *anything* you want him to be... restrictive? hardly. Each of those concepts have a varying degrees of difference and none of them are even multiclassed bards. Remember 'perform' can be anything done for an audience... fromt writing, speaking, cut-downs, juggling, singing, and the list goes on. A voice, even without singing, can be music... never heard spoken word? a really good spindoctor's work for a mayor? All of those things can easily be used for bardic 'music'. Bardic knowledge can lead to any number of concepts where you either chronicle knowledge, locate lost knowledge, search for forbidden knowledge, liberate 'lost items' or just keep a library. The bard's magic ability (especially the illusions) can help with spies, negotiators, fireworks, and even 'midevial newscasters' via remote image... can we say a couple mind linked bards, one in the courtroom 'sending images' and one outside recieving them and making illusory replicas so spectators can follow 'trials of the century'?I know this was about paladins but i couldn't resist the challenge.thanksKal</blockquote>

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