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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5041008" data-attributes="member: 71571">Well, a Cleric and a bear Shaman can out perform the spike healing of a Paladin out of the box without spending feats.For a Cleric: HS+1d6+Wis is better than HS+Cha+Cha unless Charisma is 18.  But that's before spending feats, which can make the Cleric HS+2d6+Wis+Cha.For a Bear: HS+Con and 1d6+Con is a LOT of hps gained, if not to one target.  And again, that's without feats.  This can take care of the Paladin AND the spillage that LoH would have taken care of.Warlords themselves can do HS+1d6+Attribute depending on their build.I wouldn't say Paladins can out spike-heal a proper leader, but only that a Paladin that is built to maximise Lay on Hands use will, once in a while, out-heal a leader who is spec'd towards offense or damage-avoidance and not healing.So, yes, a half-assed healer can occasionally out-do someone not focussed in healing.  But that 'not focussed in healing' will still out-do the paladin most of the time, and will prevent the need for healing in the long term, while ending battles quicker.Lay on Hands is good utility for a Defender, I find it's well served on the Paladin himself as a replacement for a Second Wind as a minor action, thus freeing the leader to do their better heals on other characters.  It's a great suppliment, but a terrible replacement even when maxxed out.</blockquote>