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<blockquote data-quote="Solodan" data-source="post: 4688142" data-attributes="member: 71071">I agree, paladins are the first class to &quot;Fail&quot;&nbsp;Or, more specifically, the first class to be completely outclassed by another class (Though melee rangers may argue, and technically it'll be a tie with wizards, as invokers may arguablly outclass good old wiz).&nbsp;Avenger, though a striker, pretty much can do everything a pally can do in theory.&nbsp; Sure, the avenger doesn't have the mark, but has the AC, provides a suitable enough threat to lockdown a single target.&nbsp; Heck, one of the oaths is &quot;Mark-like&quot; in that if someone tries to get away, they suffer for it.&nbsp;If the avenger takes certain Channel Divinity (Raven Queen, for example) then the avenger will also be able to heal just as good as a pally with a non-healing CD.&nbsp; &nbsp;The nice thing is that 4E is balanced *enough* that a weak class can still do OK, hold its own and all.&nbsp; It doesn't change the fact that it is a few steps down from some other classes, and not even the best divine defender when push comes to shove.&nbsp;Hopefully, fingers crossed, Divine Power gives pallys a boost in much the same way fighter's got bumped in martial power.&nbsp; &nbsp;We'll have to see, as I also am a huge fan of the pally.&nbsp; I have fond memories of rolling my first 18 way back in AD&amp;D and that opened up the 18 charisma I needed to play that lawful good class we all remember.&nbsp; Nostalgia can only go so far, and makes the current pally even more painful to watch.&nbsp;Here's to hoping!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Solodan, post: 4688142, member: 71071"] I agree, paladins are the first class to "Fail" Or, more specifically, the first class to be completely outclassed by another class (Though melee rangers may argue, and technically it'll be a tie with wizards, as invokers may arguablly outclass good old wiz). Avenger, though a striker, pretty much can do everything a pally can do in theory. Sure, the avenger doesn't have the mark, but has the AC, provides a suitable enough threat to lockdown a single target. Heck, one of the oaths is "Mark-like" in that if someone tries to get away, they suffer for it. If the avenger takes certain Channel Divinity (Raven Queen, for example) then the avenger will also be able to heal just as good as a pally with a non-healing CD. The nice thing is that 4E is balanced *enough* that a weak class can still do OK, hold its own and all. It doesn't change the fact that it is a few steps down from some other classes, and not even the best divine defender when push comes to shove. Hopefully, fingers crossed, Divine Power gives pallys a boost in much the same way fighter's got bumped in martial power. We'll have to see, as I also am a huge fan of the pally. I have fond memories of rolling my first 18 way back in AD&D and that opened up the 18 charisma I needed to play that lawful good class we all remember. Nostalgia can only go so far, and makes the current pally even more painful to watch. Here's to hoping! [/QUOTE]

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