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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D+1" data-source="post: 2268609" data-attributes="member: 13654">He isn't.  But he IS being defeated.  The reason is that Luke is STRONGER than Vader in many ways.Remember that at that point Vader has been see-sawing emotionally for a while.  Who knows when it is that Vader actually figures out that Luke is his son, but his reaction is to try to bring him on board to rule the galaxy as father and son.  He mentions that the Emperor has FORSEEN that Luke can destroy him and Vader is willing to facilitate it, but Luke refuses on principles.  He even tries to commit suicide by letting go of the vane he's been cornered on rather than go there.When Luke surrenders on Endor he's much more confident in his ability to deal with Vader and is actually confident that he can turn him BACK.  Vader talks like he really WANTS to go back to the good side but he just can't do it.  Luke tells him that there's still good in him but Vader obviously has yet to find it in himself, and so he clings to the idea that the power of the dark side is still preferrable.  When they go before the Emperor Vader is watching his son being emotionally destroyed by the Emperor in precisely the same way that he himself had been - everything you care about destroyed; everyone you love dead or dying and supposedly no option but to submit to the Emperor.  Vader himself at this point is AGAIN being emotionally tormented - and again it's by the Emperor.  The Emperor is attempting to emotionally destroy and then turn Luke so it's natural that he recalls the incredible pain of when he himself was turned.  When Luke refuses the Emperor attempts to simply kill him as agonizingly as possible - and Vader gets to watch his son tortured to death, knows that his daughter will be the next one to be emotionally destroyed and turned (or tortured to death...).During the ensuing fight Luke is THIS CLOSE to going over to the dark side because just as the Emperor is saying Luke is giving in to his emotions, his hatred for what his father has become, etc. even as Vader's strength, loyalty, commitment is flagging because of what the Emperor is doing to his son.  When he has Vader down and has just cut off his hand there's that brief, fantastic look of being right AT THE EDGE of completely out of control on Lukes face.  And then unlike Vader he AGAIN backs down, throws away the lightsaber [note: having learned at last the lesson that Yoda tried to teach him on Dagobah - "Your weapons, you will not need them."] and refuses to turn to the dark side.That's when Vader finally finds the good that's in him.  He's helped the Emperor try to turn him.  He's tried to turn him himself to an extent, yet at the moment of his death he's asking VADER for help.  Luke has learned all the lessons that Anakin/Vader never did and if nothing else THAT is the good that Vader still has in him - he can at last save someone, someone he loves and who is truly worth saving not just for personal reasons but for a greater good.</blockquote>

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