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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4266870" data-attributes="member: 40961">I can see no reason why this should be so, and you do not provide one.Why is it that a 21st level devil minion is the same as a 21st level mammoth minion?  Mammoths have real world attributes, namely, being big, hairy elephantine beasts that don't immediately die when a human being stabs them with a sword.  That creates the possibility for a mismatch between rules and expectations when a player stabs a mammoth and it instantly dies.  This makes them poor candidates for minion-hood in anything but the most incredibly high powered of games- and I'm not sure that 4e GOES that high.Devils on the other hand do not have real world attributes.  In game, we know there are some devils which are very dangerous monsters capable of challenging the plans of the gods, and in some cases, fighting the gods themselves.  Why can't there also be devils which are NOT particular tough, and which DO immediately die when an epic level character stabs them with a sword?  There's really no reason why not.If you ever work out a method of summoning forth a viewing portal into the Realm of Dungeons and Dragons, by all means, report back on the objective nature of a Legion Devil's combat prowess, and compare and contrast it with that of a mammoth.  But until then, there's no reason to assert that a legion devil minion automatically justifies a mammoth minion.Is this the real issue?  You want the game to have built in rules that prevent DMs from homebrewing monsters you don't like?  Yes, a DM could make a dragon, describe it as being the size of a house, give it incredible attack powers, and then assign it one hit point.  Whether that would be a good idea would depend on whether the PCs were at a power level where it would make sense for them to one-shot-kill a firebreathing lizard the size of a house.  If the PCs are indeed at that level (and I'm not sure that 4e goes that high), then that sort of minion is perfectly fine.  If the PCs are not at that level, then a DM who created such a minion would be making a mistake.  This isn't anything new- in 3e, I could create a monster with 20 levels of barbarian, then describe it as a fluffy bunny that inexplicably murders the whole party.  There is nothing in the rulebook preventing me from making mistakes.</blockquote>

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