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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ryryguy" data-source="post: 4268117" data-attributes="member: 64945">Hey KarinsDad, please, I was not trying to attack you at all.  As for suggesting that you just use a regular monster instead of a tough minion: It just seems that if your Tough minion no longer goes down in one hit, and you have to roll damage for them like a regular monster, you've taken two big steps back towards it being a regular monster.  It seemed your main goal was to hide the "minionness" of  the standard minions which I think you could do equally well with a regular monster.  Thus my inquiry about what the Tough minion adds because I honestly though a regular monster would serve just as well.  No snark intended.As to my suggestion that you try the minions as written first, I did intend that as a constructive suggestion, not a slam on your experience, rules judgement or understanding.  I just feel that the pieces of a new system should be tested at the table before tweaking, because no matter what your experience and judgement, it's nearly impossible to fully predict how it will turn out until you try it in play.  Even if it does turn out to have the problems you fear, it's likely that your tweaks will be better informed for having some data.You are of course free to disagree with and ignore this suggestion, but it was sincerely offered.  Also, I mean when we are talking about a piece of a brand new system like in this case - if we're talking about a random feat in a splatbook for a system we've been playing for years, that is a different story. The only thing I'd add is that if you're primarily concerned about players exploiting the rule, as your last post seems to suggest, then a pre-emptive change may be more warranted.  Here it's your knowledge of your own players and their particular tendencies that becomes important.  If this is the kind of thing they'd find and take advantage of, then maybe it is better to nip that in the bud.Anyway, sorry if you were pissed off by my comments as that was not my intent.  I'm not trying to be argumentative.  I'll not bother you further if you think I am not adding to the conversation.(edit) One other thing after reading some of the further conversation.  There is a disagreement about whether it is desirable to hide the fact that minions are minions, which would impact whether players waste Daily powers on them and so forth.  For now I'm leaning towards thinking it's okay and probably desirable not to hide the minions --though I'm taking my own advice and reserving full judgement until I see how it plays out at the table.  However, I'm not arguing about that point.  But I think that if you do decide you don't want obvious minions, you may be able to achieve that goal without having to mess directly with the minion rules.  You can largely do it with encounter design.  Don't make minions "the ones with the clubs" - give them all the same weapons, describe them the same way as the regulars, etc.  Don't always send them in first - they could stay hidden and pop out behind the PC's after the standards and elites draw the PC's out of position.  Once in a blue moon the BBEG might even use a minion as a "body double" while he blends in with the "rabble" to get up close and personal with the PC's.  (The BBEG does not have to use "metagame" knowledge for this, it's a classic villain trick for which using a minion for the decoy seems perfect.)</blockquote>

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