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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 4270919" data-attributes="member: 53980">You're assuming that all of the minions reach the characters.  This isn't necessarily a fair assumption because each player gets to roll an initiative vs one initiative rolled for the minions- the odds favor the PCs, that barring a surprise round at least some of them will get to act first.  If even one minion goes down while the rest are closing in, the damage becomes significantly reduced.I'm assuming 40% chance to hit for the minions, as you did.The Goblin Warrior (also level 1) has +1 greater to hit, so his chance to hit in melee is 45%, for 2.925 damage each round.  6.4 + 4.8 + 3.2 + 1.6= 16 minion dmg2.925 x 4= 11.7 goblin warrior dmgNow if they each take a hit while closing:4.8 + 3.2 + 1.6= 9.62.925 x 3= 8.775And if it's 2 hits:3.2 + 1.6= 4.82.925 x 2= 5.85If it's 3:1.62.925Just like people have been saying, minions are most dangerous when you ignore them.  If you can drop even just one or two of them before they close they're approximately the threat of a normal creature.  The warrior, on the other hand, remains a valid threat until you deal at least 29 damage to it.  Moreover, the warrior's damage value is more swingy than the minions (potentially, he can deal 10 points of damage in any round whereas the minions' damage is fixed).  Come to think of it, I also forgot to factor in the fact that the Warrior can crit whereas the minions cannot; since I also failed to factor in the minion advantage in setting up flanking, I'll say it's roughly fair.Heck, some attacks that can outright kill all 4 minions (like a fireball, although it's statistically unlikely to get all 4) will only deal a reasonable amount of damage to the Warrior.  8.775 vs 0 damage is huge advantage to the Warrior.Minions have their place, but it seems pretty obvious from the math above that the designers intended them to die early and quickly.  Otherwise they give the enemy a decisive advantage regarding damage output.  However, if just one or two minions die in the initial charge, their damage is right around what a normal enemy would deal.Minions deal their damage up front, and together deal a lot of it.  From what I'm seeing I'd say that the designers intended a few minions to die in the opening volley.  No one's say you should pack your minions should-to-shoulder to line up like lambs to the AoE slaughter.  Space them out.  Nonetheless, I would say that early attrition among minions is an intended balancing factor for them.I think that that's a pretty good reason not to obfuscate your minions from the players too often.</blockquote>

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