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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Paragon Path Multiclassing - Another Option
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<blockquote data-quote="ZetaStriker" data-source="post: 4337335" data-attributes="member: 64840"><p><span style="color: White">I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the current state of Paragon Path Multiclassing, and I myself have been somewhat disappointed at the complete lack of class feature being included in it. More than the powers, those are the things I expected from multiclassing options. While I myself may not use this little houserule option, I figured I might as well post it here in case someone else manages to make some use out of it.</span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White">These 'Class Paragon Paths' work with 4E's normal Paragon Multiclassing rules except where they are directly contradicted; meaning that these don't touch the rules for new Encounter, Utility and Daily powers, only the class features that have been placed at 11th and 16th levels.</span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White">These are a bit more powerful than some Paragon Paths... but they require 4 feats to acquire, and I'd rule that those feats cannot be retrained afterwards without losing all your multiclass abilities.</span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span> <span style="color: White">For the Leader role classes, I decided to put the full use of their healing class features as a Level 16 feature, and felt it was best balanced by the offensively supporting abilities such as Commanding Presence and Channel Divinity. I packed their weaker support abilities in with an additional at-will Encounter at level 11, which I think balances a brand new at-will power rather nicely.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: White">With the Defenders, I placed their marking abilities in the 16th level feature, much like Leaders had their healing placed there. I also tried to keep that choice between fulfilling their role and operating offensively. 11th level was difficult with these two though; on its own, Combat Superiority isn't too much, but it feels almost too powerful if the PC picks Combat Challenge at 16th level. Lay on Hands was also too powerful, as the Paladin doesn't really have any low-power class features, so I had to bump it to an Encounter power to balance.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White">The Strikers felt harder to balance. The Ranger was near perfect for this approach though; the difference between an at-will and Prime Shot is effectively the difference between Twin Strike and using a bow. At 16th, the Striker class feature of extra damage seemed to balance well with the utility-based fighting style as well. Especially for TWF Rangers, there's a real reason to avoid Hunter's Quarry at 16th.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: White">The Rogue, and the Warlock, suffered from having too many class features. I felt I had to incorporate them all in some way to create variety, and so their options are expanded a bit. Sneak Attack vs. Rogue Tactics works fine at 16th level, but I'm not entirely sure Rogue Weapon Talent stacks well with First Strike. I may change it so that you don't gain any new at-will Rogue powers in any form if you take Rogue Weapon Talent at 11th.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: White">The Warlock has so many things missing, like the Rogue, that this multiclass path feels a bit bloated. I had to fit Pact Boons, Warlock's Curse for traditional Striker roles, and Shadow Walk in the level 16, power-feature bracket, but I faced another unique challenge as well. If a PC only wants one of his pact's 2 at-wills, the 11th level class feature effectively invalidates his entire multiclass feat. So I made the option of upgrading it to an at-will and packed a class feature with that instead.</span></p><p></p><p></p><p> <span style="color: White">[FONT=&quot]</span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White">The Wizard really doesn't have an end-all be-all Controller class feature, and initially I thought it suffered from the 11th level invalidation the Warlock did. And then I remembered that Wizards have 5 at-wills to choose from, and I didn't feel so bad. As for the 16th level class features... I felt the utility of Cantrips against the combat use of an Arcane Implement were the best balance I could strike, but for many PCs, Arcane Implements will probably just beat out its competition. I'm still as happy as I can be with my build of it, though.[/FONT]</span></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: White">[FONT=&quot]I'm always up for comments, suggestions, and the rest. Not that my last couple of homebrew topics have gotten any. XD Anyway, fire away.</span></p><p><span style="color: White"></span></p><p><span style="color: White">EDIT: Grr, I don't like the new boards. It <em>will not</em> let me fix the broken appearance of my Wizard entry, as it continually puts in a /quote and quote tag between the 11th level features and the 16th level features after I try to fix it. It also randomly changed the text sizes of a few random lines and added a <p> html tag to the bottom when I first posted it.</span></p><p><span style="color: White">[/FONT]</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ZetaStriker, post: 4337335, member: 64840"] [COLOR=White]I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the current state of Paragon Path Multiclassing, and I myself have been somewhat disappointed at the complete lack of class feature being included in it. More than the powers, those are the things I expected from multiclassing options. While I myself may not use this little houserule option, I figured I might as well post it here in case someone else manages to make some use out of it. These 'Class Paragon Paths' work with 4E's normal Paragon Multiclassing rules except where they are directly contradicted; meaning that these don't touch the rules for new Encounter, Utility and Daily powers, only the class features that have been placed at 11th and 16th levels. These are a bit more powerful than some Paragon Paths... but they require 4 feats to acquire, and I'd rule that those feats cannot be retrained afterwards without losing all your multiclass abilities. [/COLOR] [COLOR=White][/COLOR][COLOR=White][/COLOR][COLOR=White]For the Leader role classes, I decided to put the full use of their healing class features as a Level 16 feature, and felt it was best balanced by the offensively supporting abilities such as Commanding Presence and Channel Divinity. I packed their weaker support abilities in with an additional at-will Encounter at level 11, which I think balances a brand new at-will power rather nicely.[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]With the Defenders, I placed their marking abilities in the 16th level feature, much like Leaders had their healing placed there. I also tried to keep that choice between fulfilling their role and operating offensively. 11th level was difficult with these two though; on its own, Combat Superiority isn't too much, but it feels almost too powerful if the PC picks Combat Challenge at 16th level. Lay on Hands was also too powerful, as the Paladin doesn't really have any low-power class features, so I had to bump it to an Encounter power to balance.[/COLOR] [COLOR=White] [/COLOR] [COLOR=White]The Strikers felt harder to balance. The Ranger was near perfect for this approach though; the difference between an at-will and Prime Shot is effectively the difference between Twin Strike and using a bow. At 16th, the Striker class feature of extra damage seemed to balance well with the utility-based fighting style as well. Especially for TWF Rangers, there's a real reason to avoid Hunter's Quarry at 16th.[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]The Rogue, and the Warlock, suffered from having too many class features. I felt I had to incorporate them all in some way to create variety, and so their options are expanded a bit. Sneak Attack vs. Rogue Tactics works fine at 16th level, but I'm not entirely sure Rogue Weapon Talent stacks well with First Strike. I may change it so that you don't gain any new at-will Rogue powers in any form if you take Rogue Weapon Talent at 11th.[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]The Warlock has so many things missing, like the Rogue, that this multiclass path feels a bit bloated. I had to fit Pact Boons, Warlock's Curse for traditional Striker roles, and Shadow Walk in the level 16, power-feature bracket, but I faced another unique challenge as well. If a PC only wants one of his pact's 2 at-wills, the 11th level class feature effectively invalidates his entire multiclass feat. So I made the option of upgrading it to an at-will and packed a class feature with that instead.[/COLOR] [COLOR=White][/COLOR][COLOR=White][FONT="] The Wizard really doesn't have an end-all be-all Controller class feature, and initially I thought it suffered from the 11th level invalidation the Warlock did. And then I remembered that Wizards have 5 at-wills to choose from, and I didn't feel so bad. As for the 16th level class features... I felt the utility of Cantrips against the combat use of an Arcane Implement were the best balance I could strike, but for many PCs, Arcane Implements will probably just beat out its competition. I'm still as happy as I can be with my build of it, though.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=White][FONT="]I'm always up for comments, suggestions, and the rest. Not that my last couple of homebrew topics have gotten any. XD Anyway, fire away. EDIT: Grr, I don't like the new boards. It [I]will not[/I] let me fix the broken appearance of my Wizard entry, as it continually puts in a /quote and quote tag between the 11th level features and the 16th level features after I try to fix it. It also randomly changed the text sizes of a few random lines and added a <p> html tag to the bottom when I first posted it. [/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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