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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Atavar" data-source="post: 951026" data-attributes="member: 7136">How About a Paragon Triceratops?Yep, Paragon is a template from the Epic Level Handbook (pp. 208-210).  I don't think I am allowed to post the entire template here (I don't think it's in the SRD), but for the Challenge Rating it says, "Up to 6 HD, as base creature +18."  A base stirge has a CR of 1/2, which would make a Paragon Stirge a CR 18.5 creature.  Since I wasn't sure how to handle fractional CR's above 1, I ad hocked the CR up to 19.According to the DMG Table 4-1: Encounter Numbers (p. 101) two CR 19 creatures would make an Encounter Level 21 encounter.  According to Table 4-2: Encounter Difficulty (p. 102) this would be an Overpowering encounter for a level 14 party.  So would just one Paragon Stirge (EL 19), but once the party gained one more level one of these things would be considered Very Difficult rather than Overpowering.That's all by-the-book, though.  My level 20 party still had one death and two other near-deaths before taking two of these out.  Had they been unlucky with penetrating their SR more of them would have died.  Had they thought to use hold monster or similar things sooner, it wouldn't have been so tough.  All in all, I've found EL to be a pretty good guide, but it can be way off depending on the nature of the foes v. the strengths and weaknesses of the party.Like Jemal pointed out, though, sending a non-epic party against a Paragon creature that they have any chance of defeating means applying the template to a low CR (and, thus, usually low HP) creature.  There is rarely a one-to-one correspondence between CR and HD, though.  Find a relatively high HD, low CR creature and you'd have a Paragon creature with good hit points yet, technically, still would be within non-epic challenges.For example, if we apply the Paragon Template to a Triceratops (Monster Manual, p. 55), here would be its stats:----------Paragon TriceratopsHuge BeastHit Dice: 16d10+240 (Con) + 192 (Paragon), Maximized (592 hp)Initiative: +7 (Dex)Speed: 90 ft.AC: 50 (10 -2 size, +7 Dex, +11 natural, +12 insight, +12 luck)Attacks: Gore +51 melee (+8 base, +18 Str [+12 x 1.5], +25 luck)Damage: Gore 2d8+38 (+18 Str [+12 x 1.5], +20 luck)Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 20 ft./10 ft.Special Attacks: Charge for double damage, trample (see below)Special Abilities: Greater dispelling, haste, and see invisibility 3x/day at 15th caster levelSpecial Qualities:ScentFire and Cold resistance 10Damage Reduction 20/+6Spell Resistance 29Fast Healing 20Saves: Fort +35 (+10 base, +15 Con, +10 insight), Ref +27 (+10 base, +7 Dex, +10 insight), Will +23 (+5 base, +8 Wis, +10 insight)Abilities: Str 35, Dex 24, Con 40, Int 16, Wis 27, Cha 22Skills: Listen +25 (+7 base, +8 Wis, +10 competence), Spot +25 (+7 base, +8 Wis, +10 competence)Feats: Any two for which it qualifiesClimate/Terrain: Any land plus undergroundOrganization: Solitary, pair, or herd (5-8)Challenge Rating: 19 (7 base, +12 for Paragon template applied to 16+ HD creature)Treasure: Standard for CR 19 creatureAlignment: Always neutralAdvancement: 17-31 HD (Gargantuan); 33-48 HD (Colossal)Trample: Medium-size or smaller creatures for 2d12 +25 (+12 Str, +13 insight) points of damage.  Opponents who do not make attacks of opportunity against the triceratops can attempt a Reflex save (DC 30 [10 + 1/2 HD + 12 Str]) to halve the damage.  (Optional: Change damage to 2d12 +12 [+12 Str] and the DC to 43 [30 + 13 insight]).----------Is this truly a CR 19 creature, or should it be higher or lower?  Only play-testing can tell.…Thanks,Atavar----------“There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.”[Thanks to whomever I stole that quote from!]</blockquote>

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