Pathfinder 1E Paralyzed = Prone?

[koesherbacon]

Just a quick question for you guys. In the text of the Paralyzed condition, it says that your strength and dexterity are effectively 0, so does that mean you immediately fall prone? I suspect this is the case but just want to make sure. I could see it going the other way, especially for spell effects like Hold Person/Monster, where, for example, you're held in place in a magical stasis of force.

Thanks a ton

 

[Super Pony]

If you are paralyzed you are also Helpless. The description of that condition fills in some answers for you. When paralyzed, you are treated as prone for the purposes of the +4 to be hit, etc. Generally, Paralysis is a bummer of a condition

 

[koesherbacon]

Thanks, ghouls are fun monsters...

 

[frankthedm]

Hold Person/Monster, where, for example, you're held in place in a magical stasis of force.

That is not how the spell works.

HOLD PERSON
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting];

It is all in the living victim's mind. Force is not involved.

 

[Gfreak2x9]

Page 564 of the Core Rulebook describes paralysis as the following...

"Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means. Paralysis from poison is discussed in the Afflictions section. A paralyzed character cannot move, speak, or take any physical action. He is rooted to the spot, frozen and helpless. Not even friends can move his limbs. He may take purely mental actions, such as casting a spell with no components. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot f lap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown."

These are what the following conditions say...

Paralyzed: A paralyzed character is frozen in place and unable to move or act. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature f lying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A paralyzed swimmer can’t swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature—ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares to move through.

Prone: The character is lying on the ground. A prone attacker has a –4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks. Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

As you can see the two are quite different, a prone PC can get back up. A paralyzed PC is more or less frozen. I hope this helped

 

[N'raac]

Given that "Not even friends can move his limbs.", I think he has no choice in the matter - if he was standing, he stays standing.

 

[koesherbacon]

So the creature is "frozen in place" rather than prone on the floor?

 

[knottyprof]

Depends on your interpretation of the rules. It states that the character is frozen in place and allies cannot move his limbs. But can allies push him over, which would end up causing the paralyzed victim to be prone? I also think it is a question of balance so if the character was position in such a way that he might fall over if left in a specific position, then would gravity take affect and cause the character to fall over? After all, a winged creature in mid flight that is paralyzed will plummet to the earth, and a swimmer that is paralyzed will likely sink down towards the bottom unless he is boyant (through natural or magical means) to stay afloat.

I think a fair amount of interpretation as well as common sense should apply to rules like these. If the character was standing upright and paralyzed by a hold person spell, he is likely to stay in the position in which the spell caught him. Paralysis from a ghoul might cause his body to go rigid as well and if in a general standing position would likely stay that way as well.

I think this is a question best answered between the player and the DM based on the situation at hand.

 

[Marshall Gatten]

Bipeds are an unstable lot. The more still you try to stand, the more you'll notice that you are constantly swaying. The muscles in your feet and lower legs are constantly working to keep you upright, and the muscles in the rest of your body react to that. Go ahead and try standing perfectly still without being in a wide squatting stance. I'll wait.

Back already? That was weird, eh?

If your body wasn't compensating constantly, you'd fall over. That's how balance works - you have to move constantly to retain balance.

I've always ruled that a character paralyzed by this type of effect is rigid, and that unless they happened to be standing in a very low-center-of-gravity stance (like preparing to receive a charge), or unless they are crawling on all fours, they fall over prone.


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[Deset Gled]

If your body wasn't compensating constantly, you'd fall over. That's how balance works - you have to move constantly to retain balance.

But who's to say that you can't compensate for balance while paralyzed? It's obvious from context that a paralyzed target is not completely physically frozen. They can still breath, pump blood, digest food, etc. If these type of internal motions were stopped by a paralyzed condition, it would kill the target. Standing still can be achieved with less external physical motion than breathing. So why can't a person also work to stay upright?

I see nothing wrong, rules-wise, with allowing a paralyzed person to use the muscles necessary to maintain balance as long as doing so would not require direct motion of their limbs. The person may even be able to choose if they want to stop balancing and fall over (although they should get no choice in the direction of falling) to same way a paralyzed person could choose to hold their breath. Obviously, changes in surroundings could knock a person over, and balance in some positions would be impossible. But falling prone is not automatic when paralyzed.