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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 301733" data-attributes="member: 3146">It's not a matter of getting rid of everything that can be min-maxed. It's a matter of getting rid of things which are overly advantageous to min-max.That was the primary complaint about the PHB ranger: that it was too front loaded, giving two weapon fighting, ambidexterity, tracking, good skill points with good skills to put them in, the ability to use wands of CLW, etc. Essentially, there were very few reasons to play a two weapon fighter without that ranger level. Monte Cook's version has made the problem worse by replacing the ambidexterity and two weapon fighting with a bonus feat that is useful for almost any feat chain a fighting class could want, giving a bonus to reflex saves as well as fortitude, and increasing the skill points all for the cost of (on average) one hit point. At least people who multiclass fighter for the bonus feat get only one bonus feat (no tracking here), only one increased saving throw, no skillpoints, and few useful skills to put the non-existant skill points into. There's a definite trade-off if you multi-class into fighter. Not so with the ranger--either PHB or Monte Cook version.As to the "multiclassing for flavor reasons" rather than power, that's all well and good but flavor very often coincides with power. My Living Arcanis Bbn 2/Ftr 1 will probably be taking a level of cleric very soon. Why? Because he's planning on paying for a failure that cost thousands of people their lives by bearing the suffering of of the suffering goddess. Of course it comes with that nifty travel domain too. Similarly, a character in another campaign started out as ranger before multiclassing cleric, paladin, and templar (well the paladin and templar levels never materialized, the game ended too soon). Why? Because it fit in with the concept of a outcast defender of the people who gradually realized how to fill his calling and lift an ancient curse by fulfilling his family's duty from long ago. But that doesn't change the fact that he got a lot from that first ranger level. . . . Flavor and power aren't mutually exclusive and a power imbalance in classes will not go away because your players are really into flavor. It will just mean that some flavors are more powerful (and hence, useful and survivable) than others.</blockquote>

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