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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6551775" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Why a martial archetype? &quot;Martial&quot; only covers one pillar: it basically says that you want combat options that don't involve magic. D&amp;D 5E supports that style okay but it could certainly do better: it would be cool to have options for &quot;things you can do with weapons.&quot; AD&amp;D handled this via called shots (e.g. targetting the enemy's weapon, or cutting his hand so he can't hold a weapon, or parrying his attack, etc.) and apparently 3E handled it via feats and prestige classes. 5E does a bit of both: battlemaster picks options at build-time, but PHB allows grappling/pushing for anyone, and DMG adds disarm although I strongly prefer the AD&amp;D way. Still, that only addresses the combat pillar.If you want non-magical exploration or social options, I don't see any reason at all why they'd be martial in nature. D&amp;D could add a detailed subsystem for social intrigue: everyone has a certain number of social goals, strengths and weaknesses, and Reputation resources to deploy, and over the course of several days gossiping/politicking you make Insight or Diplomacy checks to protect your Reputation and degrade (or enhance) others' and/or accomplish your social goals. It could add a detailed economics subsystem where you buy low in one city, choose another city where you expect to sell high, then move your goods to that city and try to sell them there. These subsystems might give you lots of agency and things to do in the exploration/social pillars without having anything to do with magic per se--but they're hardly martial in nature either. Instead of asking for martial options, why not ask for wealth-based options, or intelligence-based play (in the &quot;spying&quot; sense of the word), or socialite options, or something that conveys what you're actually looking for? Otherwise discussion will always devolve back onto the combat tier, and if you're genuinely looking for non-magical ways to enhance the exploration/social tiers that will leave you unsatisfied.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6551775, member: 6787650"] Why a martial archetype? "Martial" only covers one pillar: it basically says that you want combat options that don't involve magic. D&D 5E supports that style okay but it could certainly do better: it would be cool to have options for "things you can do with weapons." AD&D handled this via called shots (e.g. targetting the enemy's weapon, or cutting his hand so he can't hold a weapon, or parrying his attack, etc.) and apparently 3E handled it via feats and prestige classes. 5E does a bit of both: battlemaster picks options at build-time, but PHB allows grappling/pushing for anyone, and DMG adds disarm although I strongly prefer the AD&D way. Still, that only addresses the combat pillar. If you want non-magical exploration or social options, I don't see any reason at all why they'd be martial in nature. D&D could add a detailed subsystem for social intrigue: everyone has a certain number of social goals, strengths and weaknesses, and Reputation resources to deploy, and over the course of several days gossiping/politicking you make Insight or Diplomacy checks to protect your Reputation and degrade (or enhance) others' and/or accomplish your social goals. It could add a detailed economics subsystem where you buy low in one city, choose another city where you expect to sell high, then move your goods to that city and try to sell them there. These subsystems might give you lots of agency and things to do in the exploration/social pillars without having anything to do with magic per se--but they're hardly martial in nature either. Instead of asking for martial options, why not ask for wealth-based options, or intelligence-based play (in the "spying" sense of the word), or socialite options, or something that conveys what you're actually looking for? Otherwise discussion will always devolve back onto the combat tier, and if you're genuinely looking for non-magical ways to enhance the exploration/social tiers that will leave you unsatisfied. [/QUOTE]

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