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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6555047" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Two things worth bearing in mind:1.) In 5E, if &quot;martial&quot; means &quot;has no spellcasting or magical abilities in any way, shape or form,&quot; then there are hardly any martials in 5E. Open Hand Monks, Champion Fighters, Battlemasters, Thieves, Rogues, and Frenzy Barbarians. Open Hand Monks and Frenzy Barbarians arguably don't belong on that list. And any of those characters who takes the right feats immediately comes off the list, because Magical Initiate, Ritual Magic (?) and Spell Sniper all make you a &quot;caster&quot;. In short, 5E acknowledges the extra dimension of agency by making everyone a &quot;caster&quot;, to use your terminology. (My understanding is that 4E did a similar thing by making everyone a caster with AEDU powers, although they flavored the fluff to distinguish martial magic from magic magic.)2.) Some people might object that third- and half-casters in 5E aren't really &quot;casters&quot; and don't have as much agency as &quot;full casters,&quot; and that Paladins and Rangers and Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters and Elemental Monks and Shadow Monks are still being punished with &quot;less agency&quot;. Before voicing any such objections, make sure you examine the shape of the spell slot table. A 20th level full caster and a 20th level half caster have very nearly the same number of spell slots (within 25% or so, I think it's 16 for a half-caster vs 22 for a full caster). The half caster still has plenty of agency and choices even on the spellcasting tier. Which, incidentally, is why Eldritch Knights are the best kind of fighter. IMHO.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6555047, member: 6787650"] Two things worth bearing in mind: 1.) In 5E, if "martial" means "has no spellcasting or magical abilities in any way, shape or form," then there are hardly any martials in 5E. Open Hand Monks, Champion Fighters, Battlemasters, Thieves, Rogues, and Frenzy Barbarians. Open Hand Monks and Frenzy Barbarians arguably don't belong on that list. And any of those characters who takes the right feats immediately comes off the list, because Magical Initiate, Ritual Magic (?) and Spell Sniper all make you a "caster". In short, 5E acknowledges the extra dimension of agency by making everyone a "caster", to use your terminology. (My understanding is that 4E did a similar thing by making everyone a caster with AEDU powers, although they flavored the fluff to distinguish martial magic from magic magic.) 2.) Some people might object that third- and half-casters in 5E aren't really "casters" and don't have as much agency as "full casters," and that Paladins and Rangers and Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters and Elemental Monks and Shadow Monks are still being punished with "less agency". Before voicing any such objections, make sure you examine the shape of the spell slot table. A 20th level full caster and a 20th level half caster have very nearly the same number of spell slots (within 25% or so, I think it's 16 for a half-caster vs 22 for a full caster). The half caster still has plenty of agency and choices even on the spellcasting tier. Which, incidentally, is why Eldritch Knights are the best kind of fighter. IMHO. [/QUOTE]

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