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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Glen Klepic" data-source="post: 7122998" data-attributes="member: 6884596">Does the difference between a Passive Check and a Standard Check lie “in game”? This is suggested by the very term, “Passive” as opposed to “Active”.  Take a Perception Check for example. The “in game” difference being that with a Passive Perception Check, the character is generally aware of his surroundings and may notice something, as opposed to with a Standard or “Active” Perception check where the character is actively searching for something and may find it. Page 177 of the PHB (in the section regarding Hiding) also hints that the difference lies “in game”. If this is the case, then when the character fails the Passive Check, he should then be able to attempt a Standard, or “Active” Check.     Or does the difference lie “out of game”, as suggested on page 175 of the PHB, under the heading of Passive Checks? The “out of game” difference being that with a Standard Check the player or the DM rolls a d20 (and adds modifiers) to determine the result, while with a Passive Check the player or the DM “takes 10” rather than actually rolling the d20 (and adds modifiers) to determine the result.  In either case, the character must be actively making an attempt.  If this is the case, then the rule for Observant on page 168 that allows for a +5 bonus for Passive Checks should also allow it for Active Checks.Conclusion:It is unfortunate that the Player’s Handbook uses the term “Passive” to describe the “out of game” practice of “taking 10” when making an ability check. When describing the practice of "taking 10", the term “Passive Check” should be replaced with something like “Averaged Check” or “Automatic Check”. The opposite of this “Averaged Check” is a “Rolled Check” where the player or the DM actually rolls the D20 instead of “taking 10”. “Passive” should only be used to describe the “in game” situation where the character is not actively making some type of attempt. The opposite of this should be called an Active Check.  Passive Checks (as opposed to Active Checks) are very often Averaged Checks (as opposed to Rolled Checks), but either a Passive Check or an Active Check could be made as a Rolled Check (by rolling the D20) or as an Averaged Check (also known as “taking 10”). In the case of a Constitution Check (such as going for long periods without food or water) there would be no difference between a Passive Check and an Active Check and only one or the other should be attempted. But in the case of a Perception Check, an Investigation Check, and possibly others, there is a definite difference, so after failing the Passive Check the character should be allowed to attempt an Active Check if he thinks of doing so. I was thinking that there should be some penalty for the Passive Check (such as a -5), but then I read the post above, written by Defcon 1. I think he was on to something. Any Passive Checks (as opposed to Active Checks, not as opposed to Rolled Checks) could use a simple Ability Check that does not include the player's Proficiency Bonus. That would, in affect, give the penalty to Passive Checks that I was considering.      I'm still digesting some of the other stuff that Defcon1 wrote, and I liked Duggage's train of thought although I don't think I entirely agree with his conclusions. I hope to get back to you on these things later.</blockquote>

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